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Old Jun 1, 12, 11:30 am   #1
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Finnair going low cost

What else would this mean, found on AY page "Information and services":

We are analysing some new service concepts, and from 1 June to 31 October on routes between Helsinki and Manchester we’ll serve a cold meal in Business Class. The food and beverages served in Business Class are free of charge.

When travelling in Economy Class, passengers have the opportunity to purchase products from a wide variety of food and drink options. In order to offer the products as fresh and of high quality as possible, the product selection may vary by flight.

The passenger travelling in the Economy Class to or from our Asian destinations will receive a free snack pack and a non-alcoholic drink (coffee, tea and fruit juice).


This means that in Y you get nothing free! This all sounds very LCC. And they once again, when making service downgrade, try to make it sound as an improvement - how is it an improvement if you get nothing.
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Old Jun 1, 12, 1:28 pm   #2
  
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The L-word is not popular around here, but yes I believe that they are.

They are likely to try out different concepts in the near future, as they themselves are not sure what they are turning into. They only know that they must make substantial cost savings in euro traffic.
The text indicates that they are trying to separate the D/O traffic pax from the transiting pax, as they will hand out snack pack to them. It is a good thing that they will try to keep up some service for them, as they are a important part of the asian traffic.

It can be considered as an improvement, at least for the travelers who considered AY to be to expensive and who do not care about refreshments. Such travelers are not common around FT, but in the real world there are plenty of them
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Old Jun 1, 12, 2:14 pm   #3
  
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[QUOTE=sakari1707;18680455]We are analysing some new service concepts, and from 1 June to 31 October on routes between Helsinki and Manchester we’ll serve a cold meal in Business Class. The food and beverages served in Business Class are free of charge.

If they will introduce cold meals in J, for me there will be no more reason of flying AY in J within Europe. That's for sure.
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Old Jun 1, 12, 5:37 pm   #4
  
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To be brutally honest - I'm done with AY/BA. I would still prefer them given an option, but to be brutally honest:
a) they don't have a decent enough coverage in Eastern Europe.
b) the service compared to Turkish Airlines is just not even close to being acceptable
c) i don't like the guessing game and if i'm hungry, I'll just pay SK some money for it...
d) the morning flight TLL-HEL and the midnight return HEL-TLL is just always fully booked 4 weeks+ ahead, which makes it not usable.

Looks like - SAS gold in a couple of months and good-bye Oneworld Sapphire.
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Old Jun 2, 12, 12:49 am   #5
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinus View Post
We are analysing some new service concepts, and from 1 June to 31 October on routes between Helsinki and Manchester we’ll serve a cold meal in Business Class. The food and beverages served in Business Class are free of charge.

If they will introduce cold meals in J, for me there will be no more reason of flying AY in J within Europe. That's for sure.
Air Berlin on AY codeshare is beginning to look like the quality choice for European legs. They (AB) are already codesharing with CX on intra-Germany onward flights.

Btw, why punish passengers going to Manchester especially? It's one of the best longhaul markets for AY AFAIK.

Last edited by mosburger; Jun 2, 12 at 1:12 am
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Old Jun 2, 12, 12:56 am   #6
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakari1707 View Post
What else would this mean, found on AY page "Information and services":


The passenger travelling in the Economy Class to or from our Asian destinations will receive a free snack pack and a non-alcoholic drink (coffee, tea and fruit juice).
so does this mean that on a flight from HEL-BKK you only get a snack pack???

if so I will definately go another way

Finnair really seems to be lost...
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Old Jun 2, 12, 1:06 am   #7
  
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Originally Posted by kauppias View Post
so does this mean that on a flight from HEL-BKK you only get a snack pack???

if so I will definately go another way

Finnair really seems to be lost...
No, it means that if you connent on a MAN-HEL flight to a HEL-BKK flight, you will get a snack pack on the MAN-HEL leg. Service on the HEL-BKK flight (and for the moment, on the other European flights) remains unaltered.
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Old Jun 2, 12, 1:12 am   #8
  
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Originally Posted by intuition View Post
It can be considered as an improvement, at least for the travelers who considered AY to be to expensive and who do not care about refreshments. Such travelers are not common around FT, but in the real world there are plenty of them
Do you really think that ticket prices would go down in that case? For a substantial price reduction, like a good chance of getting BUD-HEL-BUD in 150 EUR (from the current 250-300 EUR level) if purchased well in advance, I would certainly trade at least a part of the service. But I doubt that such a decrease in price would happen, especially where there is little or zero competition (like the BUD market).
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Old Jun 2, 12, 4:05 am   #9
  
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Originally Posted by helahela View Post
To be brutally honest - I'm done with AY/BA. I would still prefer them given an option, but to be brutally honest:
a) they don't have a decent enough coverage in Eastern Europe.
b) the service compared to Turkish Airlines is just not even close to being acceptable
c) i don't like the guessing game and if i'm hungry, I'll just pay SK some money for it...
d) the morning flight TLL-HEL and the midnight return HEL-TLL is just always fully booked 4 weeks+ ahead, which makes it not usable.

Looks like - SAS gold in a couple of months and good-bye Oneworld Sapphire.
a) ex-HEL you have WAW, BUD and PRG (?) with a seasonal LJU or ZAG thrown in. I think OTP was slashed as was KBP. OW pax to the Balkans really miss MA. The only real option is LH (sometimes SK as well), because OS slashed it's direct HEL-VIE service (VIE used to be my second airport, transiting to many, many destinations)

b) flew Turkish only a few times, were good. Very good for M-East connections (I wouldn't venture as far as flying intercontinentl with them, due to the location of IST, mainly) But who knows?

c) I don't really get this obsession with food on s/h. I don't eat on trains or buses, why should I eat on a 1-2 hour flight? Especially when the food quality is what it is on most airlines. Usually I just say when flying Y and seeing those horrendous sandwiches "just a coffee please"

d) Estonian is back on the HEL-TLL route And of course you can't beat Copterline for fun and fast pre-flight security. Only thing is that HEL is 15 mins away, while HEN* is at least an hour in the morning.

* yes, the Hernesaari barrack has its own IATA code

As for SK - the grass is always greener on the other side But they have 100% earning on all booking classes on own metal, so a big If you're not aiming specifically for AY Gold, than it's quite possible to have both SK EBG AND OW Sapphire (BAEC comes to mind, but AB can be worth a deeper look)
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Old Jun 2, 12, 5:39 am   #10
  
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Originally Posted by JnsV View Post
Do you really think that ticket prices would go down in that case? For a substantial price reduction, like a good chance of getting BUD-HEL-BUD in 150 EUR (from the current 250-300 EUR level) if purchased well in advance, I would certainly trade at least a part of the service. But I doubt that such a decrease in price would happen, especially where there is little or zero competition (like the BUD market).
I am not sure, all I know is that AY management have said they believe that low cost is the only model that can work in euro traffic. To me that means that they have decided to compete primarily with low prices, and then maybe find some other factor that can differentiate them from the rest of the pack. And I think that is exactly what we are seeing now - they are looking to find a concept that can work.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WilcoRoger View Post
...
b) flew Turkish only a few times, were good. Very good for M-East connections (I wouldn't venture as far as flying intercontinentl with them, due to the location of IST, mainly) But who knows?

c) I don't really get this obsession with food on s/h. I don't eat on trains or buses, why should I eat on a 1-2 hour flight? Especially when the food quality is what it is on most airlines. Usually I just say when flying Y and seeing those horrendous sandwiches "just a coffee please"

...

The trouble with IST is not the location but the traffic situation IMO. For the asian LH connections, there is often a ≈5 hours layover planned to accommodate for the delay of incoming planes. I do like their LH, but the SH and connection is nothing to write home about. For example; It takes 12 hours to get to HKG from sweden on AY. If going TK, you are just taking off from IST after 12 hours...


Regarding the food on SH, I am among the obsessive... Probably because I find SH travel soooo boring. I need to have something to do. I spend at least half an hour to deal with Lufthansas sillly sausage and cold potato-salad (about 100g of food I guess)
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Old Jun 2, 12, 5:44 am   #11
  
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Originally Posted by WilcoRoger View Post
c) I don't really get this obsession with food on s/h. I don't eat on trains or buses, why should I eat on a 1-2 hour flight? Especially when the food quality is what it is on most airlines. Usually I just say when flying Y and seeing those horrendous sandwiches "just a coffee please"
I have two reasons for this:

The overall travel time is much longer in case of a 2 hour flight than in case of a 2 hour train journey. I can get out from my bed 45 minutes before my train departs, leave my house 25 later and still catch the train pretty much surely. The station of arrival is probably closer to your final destination than an airport of arrival. So while a 2 hour train journey is mostly part of a 3 hour total journey time, a 2 hour flight means an at least 5 hour long journey in most cases.

The security rules prevent from taking my regular drinks post security (where you may also spend quite some time before the scheduled departure). Security and safety (i.e. placement of luggage for t/o and landing) rules and hand luggage restrictions make it considerably harder to use my regular luggage for a day of rail travel (a medium sized backpack filled with an iPad and a MacBook + a small-to-medium sized sidepack filled with food and drinks) for a flight.
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Old Jun 2, 12, 5:46 am   #12
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intuition View Post
I am not sure, all I know is that AY management have said they believe that low cost is the only model that can work in euro traffic. To me that means that they have decided to compete primarily with low prices, and then maybe find some other factor that can differentiate them from the rest of the pack. And I think that is exactly what we are seeing now - they are looking to find a concept that can work.
I really hope that they can find one that works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intuition View Post
Regarding the food on SH, I am among the obsessive... Probably because I find SH travel soooo boring. I need to have something to do. I spend at least half an hour to deal with Lufthansas sillly sausage and cold potato-salad (about 100g of food I guess)
Oh yes, this one I left out, but also a very important factor for me too.
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Old Jun 2, 12, 7:58 am   #13
  
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Originally Posted by mosburger View Post
Btw, why punish passengers going to Manchester especially? It's one of the best longhaul markets for AY AFAIK.
My guess is that its because its one of the longer E190 routes, and they are testing the cold-C-meal thing there, as they want to get rid of the ovens on the E-jets.

Personally, I'm not going to cry over that crappy sandwich in Y, but the drinks going from free to for-sale would definitely be a big minus.
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Old Jun 2, 12, 9:18 am   #14
  
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Originally Posted by mkgrip View Post
My guess is that its because its one of the longer E190 routes, and they are testing the cold-C-meal thing there, as they want to get rid of the ovens on the E-jets.

Personally, I'm not going to cry over that crappy sandwich in Y, but the drinks going from free to for-sale would definitely be a big minus.
Any idea why they want to remove the ovens?
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Old Jun 2, 12, 10:27 am   #15
  
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Ovens can be replaced with passengers
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