AY+ vs SK EB (comparison)
May 10, 2012, 7:49 am
#16
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It is a bit difficult to compare, due to the fact that a direct flight always will earn fewer miles (and cost more), resulting in a disadvantage using the home carrier from their respective hub. So I will compare hub for hub, i.e. comparing one direct flight to an connection flight. Maybe not the fairest compare, but the most adequate for a flyer.
Also, the value of status in the two programmes is not a solid figure to evaluate; it depends on the traveller's preferences. I have choosen to compare EBG to AY+GOLD, as the perks are about the same for each. I have taken into account tier-bonuses kicking in at 20k/50k resp 40k/90k/150k. I have choosen NRT and BKK as destinations, as both carriers have direct flights there, and calculated the number of trips needed to earn/retain gold if you only do this route and nothing else.
Number of one way trips needed for gold status
1. A HEL-flyer choosing SK and EB will earn GOLD quicker, but for a CPH-flyer there is no difference in the programs
2. A HEL-flyer will retain EBG easier than AY+G, but for a CPH-flyer there is no difference in the programs
Also, the value of status in the two programmes is not a solid figure to evaluate; it depends on the traveller's preferences. I have choosen to compare EBG to AY+GOLD, as the perks are about the same for each. I have taken into account tier-bonuses kicking in at 20k/50k resp 40k/90k/150k. I have choosen NRT and BKK as destinations, as both carriers have direct flights there, and calculated the number of trips needed to earn/retain gold if you only do this route and nothing else.
Number of one way trips needed for gold status
Code:
AY-J SK-J 0->AY+G Retain AY+G 0->EBG Retain EBG CPH-NRT 5 4 (3,9) 5 4 (3,5) HEL-NRT 6 5 (4,6) 4 4 (3,2) CPH-BKK 5 5 (4,2) 5 4 (3,7) HEL-BKK 6 5 (4,9) 4 4 (3,4)
1. A HEL-flyer choosing SK and EB will earn GOLD quicker, but for a CPH-flyer there is no difference in the programs
2. A HEL-flyer will retain EBG easier than AY+G, but for a CPH-flyer there is no difference in the programs
May 10, 2012, 1:18 pm
#18
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May 10, 2012, 3:13 pm
#19
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Oh, thanks guys!
Hehe, maybe it is because that I am having a dry spell in flying right now I have the time for it
Yeah, there is a bit of added complexity as tier-bonus affects tier points too. It is a good thing though, as it makes retaining easier.
I think SK will draw in a lot of EBGs the forthcoming year and keep them "locked in" for a long time due to the low threshold, the 100% earnings in low econ and the 1,25 tier bonus.
I wonder if it isn't time for AY to start wondering about these things too...
Hehe, maybe it is because that I am having a dry spell in flying right now I have the time for it
Yeah, there is a bit of added complexity as tier-bonus affects tier points too. It is a good thing though, as it makes retaining easier.
I think SK will draw in a lot of EBGs the forthcoming year and keep them "locked in" for a long time due to the low threshold, the 100% earnings in low econ and the 1,25 tier bonus.
I wonder if it isn't time for AY to start wondering about these things too...
May 10, 2012, 3:38 pm
#20
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It's not so much the number of EBGs that AY should think about, but the load factors on its Scandinavian routes, among others. HEL-ARN or CPH on el cheapo fares earn next to nothing on AY but it does earn something on SK. I for one see no reason to fly these routes on AY - espcially that SK is often cheaper and sells one ways for reasonable prices.
May 11, 2012, 2:22 am
#21
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It's not so much the number of EBGs that AY should think about, but the load factors on its Scandinavian routes, among others. HEL-ARN or CPH on el cheapo fares earn next to nothing on AY but it does earn something on SK. I for one see no reason to fly these routes on AY - espcially that SK is often cheaper and sells one ways for reasonable prices.
True, HEL-ARN (or other intra-scand) earns next to nothing in el-cheapo, but earns 3750 in C with plat bonus. So I have good reasons to go via HEL, at least until they complete the transfer of the complete route network to el-cheapo-airlines, reducing points and service to nothing..
May 11, 2012, 3:38 am
#22
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True, HEL-ARN (or other intra-scand) earns next to nothing in el-cheapo, but earns 3750 in C with plat bonus. So I have good reasons to go via HEL, at least until they complete the transfer of the complete route network to el-cheapo-airlines, reducing points and service to nothing..
May 11, 2012, 3:52 am
#23
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If they cut the euro-traffic to LCC model (=no J etc.) can they really survive with their long haul Asia-Europe strategy after that...? I don't think so..AY have to keep good quality intra-euro J class or otherwise they will lose the Asian transit J business..pretty sure of that!
May 11, 2012, 6:22 am
#24
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If they cut the euro-traffic to LCC model (=no J etc.) can they really survive with their long haul Asia-Europe strategy after that...? I don't think so..AY have to keep good quality intra-euro J class or otherwise they will lose the Asian transit J business..pretty sure of that!
I usually try to avoid modelling the world after my own views, but in this case I find it difficult to see the regular-joe accepting feeder traffic in Y if the LH is in J. (Writing this I realise I sound really von-oben - what I mean is that why on earth should anyone with a budget for J travel, choose to go via HEL in Y).
May 11, 2012, 12:24 pm
#25
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Swiss did try something similar. I don't remember if it was buy on board and one-class. The connecting first-class passengers complained and the old service concept was reintroduced. Brussels airlines skipped business class when the merger with SN Brussels and Virgin Express happened. A couple of years ago intra-European business class was reintroduced and the B.flex class was kept. I wonder why AY can't offer Eco+ on its Long-haul flights.
May 11, 2012, 1:05 pm
#26
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Swiss did try something similar. I don't remember if it was buy on board and one-class. The connecting first-class passengers complained and the old service concept was reintroduced. Brussels airlines skipped business class when the merger with SN Brussels and Virgin Express happened. A couple of years ago intra-European business class was reintroduced and the B.flex class was kept. I wonder why AY can't offer Eco+ on its Long-haul flights.
Jul 9, 2013, 4:32 am
#27
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Time to update
A lot have happened in both camps
EARN/BURN
EARN (one way)
Elite level multipliers on own metal:
AY: Silver 1,10x Gold 1,15x, Plat 1,25x
SK: Silver 1,15x Gold 1,25x
CoS multiplier within alliance
AY - 1,25x for C, 1,5x for F vs SK - 2x for C and F (with some caveats for LH/OS/LX discount C fares)
BURN (return)
One-way redemption at 60% for both
No YQ for SK redemptions (!)
under-17 "junior" redemption at 50% for AY, under-12 child redemption at 50% for SK
STATUS
AY Silver -40k OR 24 segments on OW carriers
AY Gold - 90k OR 54 segments on OW carriers
AY Plat - 150k OR 92 segments on OW carriers
(there used to be a requirement of a minimum of 4 segments on own metal, can't find this anymore)
SK Silver -20k (cannot find the segment based requirements)
SK Gold - 50k (cannot find the segment based requirements)
Worth noting - Poland, Germany and Russia (for AY) are now in the same band with Scandinavia
EARN/BURN
EARN (one way)
Code:
AY: C Pro Value Basic SK: C Plus Go HEL-CPH 2000 1500 1000 500 1000 750 500 HEL-LHR 4000 3000 2000 1000 2000 1500 1000 HEL-NYC 15000 11250 7500 3750 8800 6600 4400 HEL-NRT 17000 12750 8500 4250 12400 9300 6200
AY: Silver 1,10x Gold 1,15x, Plat 1,25x
SK: Silver 1,15x Gold 1,25x
CoS multiplier within alliance
AY - 1,25x for C, 1,5x for F vs SK - 2x for C and F (with some caveats for LH/OS/LX discount C fares)
BURN (return)
Code:
AY C AY Y u/g oneway SK C SK Y SK eco u/g oneway HEL-CPH 30000 20000 7500 30000 25000 20000 n.a HEL-LHR 65000 45000 10000 50000 40000 30000 n.a HEL-NYC 200000 125000 50000 100000 80000 60000 25-40000 HEL-NRT 250000 150000 60000 140000 110000 80000 25-40000
No YQ for SK redemptions (!)
under-17 "junior" redemption at 50% for AY, under-12 child redemption at 50% for SK
STATUS
AY Silver -40k OR 24 segments on OW carriers
AY Gold - 90k OR 54 segments on OW carriers
AY Plat - 150k OR 92 segments on OW carriers
(there used to be a requirement of a minimum of 4 segments on own metal, can't find this anymore)
SK Silver -20k (cannot find the segment based requirements)
SK Gold - 50k (cannot find the segment based requirements)
Worth noting - Poland, Germany and Russia (for AY) are now in the same band with Scandinavia
Last edited by WilcoRoger; Jul 9, 2013 at 2:09 pm Reason: Some typos corrected in AY
Jul 9, 2013, 4:46 am
#28
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How many flights needed for redemptions?
And to add some basic arithmetics - same class redemptions as revenue flights
in C
HEL-NRT AY 14,7 (was 13) vs SK 11,3 (was 11)
HEL-NYC AY 13,3 (was 15) vs SK 11,3 (was 11)
HEL-LHR AY 16,25 (was 17) vs SK 25 (was 17)
HEL-CPH AY 15 (was 13) vs SK 30 (was 30)
in lowest eco:
HEL-NRT AY 14,1 vs SK 13,6
HEL-NYC AY 13,3 vs SK 13,6
HEL-LHR AY 22,5 vs SK 30
HEL-CPH AY 40 vs SK 40
NB - No status multipliers were considered
in C
HEL-NRT AY 14,7 (was 13) vs SK 11,3 (was 11)
HEL-NYC AY 13,3 (was 15) vs SK 11,3 (was 11)
HEL-LHR AY 16,25 (was 17) vs SK 25 (was 17)
HEL-CPH AY 15 (was 13) vs SK 30 (was 30)
in lowest eco:
HEL-NRT AY 14,1 vs SK 13,6
HEL-NYC AY 13,3 vs SK 13,6
HEL-LHR AY 22,5 vs SK 30
HEL-CPH AY 40 vs SK 40
NB - No status multipliers were considered
Last edited by WilcoRoger; Jul 9, 2013 at 2:10 pm Reason: HEL-CPH AY corrected
Jul 9, 2013, 5:18 am
#29
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Are you sure about this one?
SK's booking-engine displays a whopping 12 150 miles in plus for HEL-CPH-NRT.
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added: and it displays 11 400 miles CPH-NRT in both plus and business
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added: and it displays 11 400 miles CPH-NRT in both plus and business