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Old Jun 8, 11, 2:05 am   #1
 
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Babys in J

Can anyone explain to me why AY is placing babys in J class always in in row number one (on A330/A340) and not in the smaller rear cabin? Specaily because they placing babys flying in Y always direct behind the small rear cabin, so as a business passenger you have more or less no option to escape, even if the cabin layout is perfect to seperate passengers flying with infants from those who want to catch some sleep.
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Old Jun 8, 11, 2:13 am   #2
 
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Originally Posted by Ed Size View Post
Can anyone explain to me why AY is placing babys in J class always in in row number one (on A330/A340) and not in the smaller rear cabin? Specaily because they placing babys flying in Y always direct behind the small rear cabin, so as a business passenger you have more or less no option to escape, even if the cabin layout is perfect to seperate passengers flying with infants from those who want to catch some sleep.
I can, because I just happened to research this on a previous flight.

At least the new A330 full-flat seats have special airbagged seat belts, that are not compatible with regular seat-belt extenders required with baby safety/booster seats. However, row 1 (at least the middle seats?) has regular seat belts that can accommodate the extenders Finnair uses. Why Finnair doesn't have extenders compatible with the airbag belts (that do disable the airbag when used), I don't know.

This is also why (sometimes?) a heavy passenger requiring seat-belt extender in business have to sit in row 1 at least for take-off and landing.
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Old Jun 8, 11, 2:24 am   #3
 
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Originally Posted by paxman View Post
I can, because I just happened to research this on a previous flight.

At least the new A330 full-flat seats have special airbagged seat belts, that are not compatible with regular seat-belt extenders required with baby safety/booster seats. However, row 1 (at least the middle seats?) has regular seat belts that can accommodate the extenders Finnair uses. Why Finnair doesn't have extenders compatible with the airbag belts (that do disable the airbag when used), I don't know.

This is also why (sometimes?) a heavy passenger requiring seat-belt extender in business have to sit in row 1 at least for take-off and landing.
Airbag belts, that sounds pretty high-tech. I never realized any difference with the seatbelts on any of A330/A340 configurations, flying in row one as well as in a few other rows.

So why they dont install the right seatbelts in the bulkhead row in the rear cabin?
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Old Jun 8, 11, 2:31 am   #4
 
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Airbag belts, that sounds pretty high-tech. I never realized any difference with the seatbelts on any of A330/A340 configurations, flying in row one as well as in a few other rows.

So why they dont install the right seatbelts in the bulkhead row in the rear cabin?
Very good question. That would make sense, wouldn't it? To be honest, I haven't checked in the rear if they have done so. All I know I did check the difference between row 1 and rest of the front cabin on an AY A330. Also the at least middle seats in row 1 have some baby seat info stickers on the wall in front of them, so clearly Finnair has planned to seat babies there, not just a coincidence.

The seat belt airbag is the large bulge on the other side of the seat belt. I thought it was some kind of a cushion but closer inspection proved it is actually some sort of an airbag, that needs to be disabled when used with a baby seat (and for some reason Finnair doesn't seem to have the required special extenders for those seats, or didn't have on flights where I've noticed such use).
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Old Jun 8, 11, 4:51 am   #5
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That's very interesting to read. I would have otherwise thought it was largely a function of bassinet placement limitations on board.

Is this kind of issue in business class with seat belt extenders also applicable to the economy cabin on the same planes? Different kinds of seatbelt, IIRC, but I never looked too closely. Hopefully it won't be such that some young infant is denied travel or downgraded with a parent/guardian because of there being "too many" lap-child infants showing up for a flight.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 8, 11 at 4:56 am..
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Old Jun 8, 11, 5:14 am   #6
 
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Sure there are limitations for bassinets, but on AY they are in both of the bulkhead rows (in the front and in the rear cabin), and I just wonder why AY reserves the first row for their very loyal customers AND for infants - if they just can place infants in the rear. Because the there is only one noisy area in the aircraft. Because the infants in Y are also placed in that area.

It makes no sense to me.
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Old Jun 8, 11, 11:56 pm   #7
 
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To save some valuable time w/o the need to worry about such things just invest in a pair of excellent noise cancelling headphones and you're done.

Babies have all the rights to fly in J, same as you or any business man out there. Also, we need to remember that on AY the rear J cabin is often Y service - only on high J load flights it's real business back there.
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Old Jun 9, 11, 1:59 am   #8
 
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
To save some valuable time w/o the need to worry about such things just invest in a pair of excellent noise cancelling headphones and you're done.

Babies have all the rights to fly in J, same as you or any business man out there. Also, we need to remember that on AY the rear J cabin is often Y service - only on high J load flights it's real business back there.
You just do not get the point. AY have a cabin layout that would allow, both babies and those who want to sleep, perfect room - unless many other airlines - so why don t they use this as a usp?
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Old Jun 9, 11, 4:39 am   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Ed Size View Post
You just do not get the point. AY have a cabin layout that would allow, both babies and those who want to sleep, perfect room - unless many other airlines - so why don t they use this as a usp?
I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..
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Old Jun 9, 11, 11:52 pm   #10
 
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..
Not that I would really care, but I don't think anybody is requiring AY to remove the baby-compatible seat belts from row 1, so they could still use it if the rear cabin is not used (or if we are talking about a plane without the rear cabin.

That would actually give AY _more_ flexibility in the cabin use, the could use the rear cabin for C or "premium Y as needed (as they do now) but in the rare occurrence that they have more families in C, they could use both rows for infants.
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Old Jun 10, 11, 12:27 am   #11
 
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Originally Posted by mkgrip View Post
Not that I would really care, but I don't think anybody is requiring AY to remove the baby-compatible seat belts from row 1, so they could still use it if the rear cabin is not used (or if we are talking about a plane without the rear cabin.

That would actually give AY _more_ flexibility in the cabin use, the could use the rear cabin for C or "premium Y as needed (as they do now) but in the rare occurrence that they have more families in C, they could use both rows for infants.
With that I agree, yes.

It would be nice to know how many such J flights there are where both cabins are used for J and they have infants on board...and also, if row one would still have infant seats every knowledgeable pax with babies would want to be seated there anyway...

Anyway, people who want ultimate privacy can always fly private. With all commercial airlines you always have some risk, even in those so called sanctuaries like CX/SQ/EK First.
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Old Jun 10, 11, 2:38 am   #12
 
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Originally Posted by NoWindowSeat View Post
I do get your point - and actually, I get it beyond your thinking

It simply would not make any commercial sense for AY to do what you propose, that's why they do not do it.

Like I said, the back J cabin is often used for high fare class Y pax with Y service + some elites as well... If AY did what you propose they would be forced to fly a lot of empty J seats on almost every flight and guess why they do not want to do it? It's not rocket science..
So how do I manage to fly in the rear cabin, without paying the J fare? I m AY+ Platinum, does this helps?

It happens to me about 4 or 5 times that there was an infant in row one, and I sat back in the rear (no problem with that) and I did not feel any difference regarding service i.e. So do they start doing "real" service in the back if someone moves from the front to the back to get some privacy?

Actually I never ever had the option to choose the rear seats while checkin in online.
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Old Jun 10, 11, 2:58 am   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Ed Size View Post
So how do I manage to fly in the rear cabin, without paying the J fare? I m AY+ Platinum, does this helps?

It happens to me about 4 or 5 times that there was an infant in row one, and I sat back in the rear (no problem with that) and I did not feel any difference regarding service i.e. So do they start doing "real" service in the back if someone moves from the front to the back to get some privacy?

Actually I never ever had the option to choose the rear seats while checkin in online.
If economy is overbooked and there's room in C, they can use the rear cabin as economy, kind of like how they move the divider in SH fleet. Then it will be regular economy in all aspects (meals etc.) except for the fancy seat. If you never fly in whY (as I've understood) you of course don't have a chance of getting such "half an upgrade" anymore than a real OP-UP. If you do fly in Y, naturally Platinum will better your chances for both. And naturally neither can be guaranteed with a Y ticket.

If you move from J to Y (change seats), whether that is the "rear J" why cabin, or the "real" Y cabin they might or might not be willing to cater to you in J standards (probably not). If the rear cabin is J, then of course changing there is just like any other seat change within the front cabin, and there is no difference in service. When you moved, they probably used both cabins for J.
If the rear is not available during check-in then probably either the plane doesn't have a rear cabin or it is used for Y.
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Old Jun 10, 11, 5:42 am   #14
 
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Originally Posted by mkgrip View Post
If the rear is not available during check-in then probably either the plane doesn't have a rear cabin or it is used for Y.
According to my AY+ account I did 56 flights on longhaul J in the past 24 month, I can not remember that it was possible to make a seat reservation in the rear section once - so do they always use it as Y?

I actually changed my seat to the back a few times, and as I said it was always "the real" service.


And yes, I never fly Y because I don t want to take the risk to sit in a real Y seat for 10 - 11 hours. So no op-up for me
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Old Jun 11, 11, 4:51 pm   #15
 
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According to my AY+ account I did 56 flights on longhaul J in the past 24 month, I can not remember that it was possible to make a seat reservation in the rear section once - so do they always use it as Y?
I would hazard guess they just want to keep their options open - if loads are light, they may leave the rear J cabin empty (a bit easier on cabin crew I suppose, and won't need to have it cleaned after the flight); if Y is overbooked but no J passengers are in the rear cabin yet they can use it as a "Y+".

If they let J passengers select seats in the rear cabin before the main J cabin is full, they lose both of these options unless they want to move people from their assigned seats. I don't know if it becomes possible to select seats in the rear cabin after the main cabin is full, or if they would wait until checkin to see if there are any cancellations.
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