CBC investigation proves it...dated rooms PLUS filthy maintenance
Nov 17, 2012, 4:19 pm
#1
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CBC investigation proves it...dated rooms PLUS filthy maintenance
I always found most Fairmonts to be dated, substandard, poorly maintained, and offering awkward service, and uninspiring food.
Having found grimy carpets, cracked sinks, old and wornout Formica countertops, garage sale quality furnishings, worn mattresses, noisy aircon, and sweat stained pillows, I just tried to ignore it and enjoy my sleep. Knowing that it's the branding and grand architecture distinguishing Fairmont from a Motel 6 but not much else, I would have never expected the rooms to be infested with bacteria due to unacceptably sloppy maintenance and housekeeping.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/sto...l-ice-air.html
Finding out that in one test there were 200 times the allowable amount of bacteria on the toilet seat is simply disgusting.
So, my gut feel was kind of correct. Fairmont is a poorly run, over hyped, outdated, overpriced, dirty and uninspiring franchise.
I get similar vibes from Ritz Carleton's, but I find Mandarin Oriental rooms to be pristine and amazing well scrubbed from top to bottom. They simply feel clean.
Having found grimy carpets, cracked sinks, old and wornout Formica countertops, garage sale quality furnishings, worn mattresses, noisy aircon, and sweat stained pillows, I just tried to ignore it and enjoy my sleep. Knowing that it's the branding and grand architecture distinguishing Fairmont from a Motel 6 but not much else, I would have never expected the rooms to be infested with bacteria due to unacceptably sloppy maintenance and housekeeping.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/sto...l-ice-air.html
Finding out that in one test there were 200 times the allowable amount of bacteria on the toilet seat is simply disgusting.
So, my gut feel was kind of correct. Fairmont is a poorly run, over hyped, outdated, overpriced, dirty and uninspiring franchise.
I get similar vibes from Ritz Carleton's, but I find Mandarin Oriental rooms to be pristine and amazing well scrubbed from top to bottom. They simply feel clean.
Nov 17, 2012, 11:22 pm
#2
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I always found most Fairmonts to be dated, substandard, poorly maintained, and offering awkward service, and uninspiring food.
Having found grimy carpets, cracked sinks, old and wornout Formica countertops, garage sale quality furnishings, worn mattresses, noisy aircon, and sweat stained pillows, I just tried to ignore it and enjoy my sleep.
Having found grimy carpets, cracked sinks, old and wornout Formica countertops, garage sale quality furnishings, worn mattresses, noisy aircon, and sweat stained pillows, I just tried to ignore it and enjoy my sleep.
FWIW I did note the poor results of the Fairmont Hotel Vancouver in this post.
Nov 18, 2012, 5:02 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2010
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We are germaphobe. We clean everything that should be cleaned as we check in at any hotels, from 5 star to motels before
1. Throw away the comforter and any decoratives pillows. They are dirty and usually never gets cleaned. For sure it is not washed after each guest.
2. Wipe remotes, lights switchs, lamp switch, any surface that you touch and you know that the maids do not have time to clean those area properly.
3. Wipe the window blinds stick or control of the blinds switches.
4. Bring your own plastic cups or those camping collapsible cups. The maids do not have time to clean those properly. If they do clean, they clean with the same gloves that they clean your toilets seats with, as shown on cbc. Unless they provide new cups, sealed, directly from the commercial wash dishes machine, otherwise you clean it yourself.
5. Ice machine:lots of contamination from staff or guests. Avoid. Avoid especially bring in ice without a brand new plactic bags.
6. Last but the most important: Toothbrushes and contact lenses ir make up: seriously, why do you leave it on the counter when you leave the room? You trust a total stranger with handling of your toothbrush? Even if the maids do not do anything disgusting with it, they may have to touch it with their dirty gloves ( if they have gloves). Toothbrushes and personal items Can transfer germs easily to you, as you brushes, you may be prone to bleeding and easier contamination.
1. Throw away the comforter and any decoratives pillows. They are dirty and usually never gets cleaned. For sure it is not washed after each guest.
2. Wipe remotes, lights switchs, lamp switch, any surface that you touch and you know that the maids do not have time to clean those area properly.
3. Wipe the window blinds stick or control of the blinds switches.
4. Bring your own plastic cups or those camping collapsible cups. The maids do not have time to clean those properly. If they do clean, they clean with the same gloves that they clean your toilets seats with, as shown on cbc. Unless they provide new cups, sealed, directly from the commercial wash dishes machine, otherwise you clean it yourself.
5. Ice machine:lots of contamination from staff or guests. Avoid. Avoid especially bring in ice without a brand new plactic bags.
6. Last but the most important: Toothbrushes and contact lenses ir make up: seriously, why do you leave it on the counter when you leave the room? You trust a total stranger with handling of your toothbrush? Even if the maids do not do anything disgusting with it, they may have to touch it with their dirty gloves ( if they have gloves). Toothbrushes and personal items Can transfer germs easily to you, as you brushes, you may be prone to bleeding and easier contamination.
Nov 18, 2012, 5:33 am
#4
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Whoa, we must've been staying at different Fairmonts as the ones I've stayed at were nothing like you describe at all.
FWIW I did note the poor results of the Fairmont Hotel Vancouver in this post.
FWIW I did note the poor results of the Fairmont Hotel Vancouver in this post.
St. Andrews NB (now closed) (Old Formica counters, ancient decor, lousy food, peeling wallpaper)
Chateau Frontenac (torn sheets on arrival)
Reine Elisabeth (unclean carpets, cracked sink, food alright)
Royal York (just overall grimy, rust in bathroom,)
None of any others have ever been memorable. Cleanest looking overall has been Ch Mt Tremblant.
Nov 18, 2012, 5:56 am
#5
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Recently, The cbc marketplace show has so many flaws, they are in business of sensationalism journalism. They only focus on one factor and usually distort the whole picture. It happens at every one of their show recently, so much that it bring their credibility down.
1. Sample of hotels are too low to be relevant statistically. They only focus on some rooms over thousands of rooms.
2. Control group: are hotels dirtier than your own home? Maybe yes maybe no. Cbc did not show that. There are bad apples / employees everywhere. Does that means that statistically one hotel chains is dirtier than other?
3. Cbc marketplace only focus on the number of germs, without specifying if those germs are pathogens or not (can make you sick).germs are everywhere, on your hands, doors handles etc. they are not all bad. Some are good and needed. But now you can even find the bad ones like c difficile or msra almost everywhere, in your home, your car, public spaces. If they find one bad germ and isolate it does that means that the surface is not clean? It is relative.
4. Cleaning = reducing number of germs. Cleaning is not sterilizing (eliminate most germs)
5. Statement from cbc that you can get STD sitting on dirty toilet seats? Ha ha! Potentially theorically yes. Practically? Ha ha . Can cbc prove statistically that it is possible? Can they prove that an std comes from the same dirty seat with genetic tracking? Ask your dr. It is those sensational statements that makes the whole show looks questionable on their real intentions.
6. After the cbc tests, When they claimed that alcohol based wipes clean better? Ha ha ha. Anybody that are germaphobe like us, or travel often can recognize that the same wipes that cbc used in the show is not alcohol based, the packaging is from "wet-ones". It is benzalkonium cl based, not alcohol based. There is only a few cie that makes the alcohol based wipes, one of them is one-step, sold at walmart and other retailers. Benzalkonium cl is not necessary better than alcohol. Cbc even screwed up on this important detail and showed their lack of impartiality.
7. Then why cbc claimed that in their test it show it is better? Well it is because of their methodology flaws. How long did they actually scrub the surface? Physical scrubbing can reduce germs as well as chemical. Did they scrub the surface the same way, with the same duration etc ?
8. Same for the uv lights desinfecting wand that best western claim to use: did the user properly use the lights? Did cbc actually read the manual? Uv lights is sensitive dependent on duration of exposure, distance of exposure etc... Hotels may use it, but do they properly take the time to properly expose the lights to the surface? Highly unlikely, with the maids limited cleaning time, and maybe it was the same as cbc marketplace.
While i may not question their " experts" qualification in this week`s show, i do suspect cbc edited his words to be out of context. Then cbc marketplace keeps repeating the same sensational phrases over and over again... It is not investigative journalism, it is more like "people" magazine mixed with fox and repeated in loops like cnn.
Same as last year, there was a marketplace show about buying glasses online: they pick 1, yes one, pair of glasses then test it properly with a dr. and showed that it was ok. Then based on that, cbc tried to show that ordering online is ok and safe for you.
That One specific glasses tested by marketplace may be tested ok for that customer, but how about over thousand and thousands of glasses?
There is a conclusive study made by the reputable universities (not some sham marketplace investigations, double blind, control group,), that showed that a significant percentage of eye glasses ordered online does not fit, not properly made, or are not right one way or another. Might as well order from china, no difference.
Does that mean that will you notice the eye glasses flaws? Not necessarily. You can wear the wrong eyeglasses that you ordered online, but if you are a tolerant type, or if you have never noticed or experienced what perfect vision is like, you may not notice. Same reasons as Why do you buy a canon dslr instead of using your ipad camera?
Similar as if you order drugs online. Will you notice if it is the wrong dose, expired, wrong ingredients, wrong drugs, not properly stored, etc.. and you will have side effects and die? Not necessarily. You take a gamble and the rest of us have to pay for your healthcare if something goes wrong. The rest of the drivers and the society also pay when you wear wrong glasses and something goes wrong.
Don't forget that in that eye glasses episode, their cbc marketplace experts is a technician that lost his optical license, he went to jail because he was found to be endangering the public with his methods of remote ordering and or prescribing. That whole show was clearly for promotion of one online company.
Cbc marketplace show is only in it for the ratings. Take it with a big grain of salt.
1. Sample of hotels are too low to be relevant statistically. They only focus on some rooms over thousands of rooms.
2. Control group: are hotels dirtier than your own home? Maybe yes maybe no. Cbc did not show that. There are bad apples / employees everywhere. Does that means that statistically one hotel chains is dirtier than other?
3. Cbc marketplace only focus on the number of germs, without specifying if those germs are pathogens or not (can make you sick).germs are everywhere, on your hands, doors handles etc. they are not all bad. Some are good and needed. But now you can even find the bad ones like c difficile or msra almost everywhere, in your home, your car, public spaces. If they find one bad germ and isolate it does that means that the surface is not clean? It is relative.
4. Cleaning = reducing number of germs. Cleaning is not sterilizing (eliminate most germs)
5. Statement from cbc that you can get STD sitting on dirty toilet seats? Ha ha! Potentially theorically yes. Practically? Ha ha . Can cbc prove statistically that it is possible? Can they prove that an std comes from the same dirty seat with genetic tracking? Ask your dr. It is those sensational statements that makes the whole show looks questionable on their real intentions.
6. After the cbc tests, When they claimed that alcohol based wipes clean better? Ha ha ha. Anybody that are germaphobe like us, or travel often can recognize that the same wipes that cbc used in the show is not alcohol based, the packaging is from "wet-ones". It is benzalkonium cl based, not alcohol based. There is only a few cie that makes the alcohol based wipes, one of them is one-step, sold at walmart and other retailers. Benzalkonium cl is not necessary better than alcohol. Cbc even screwed up on this important detail and showed their lack of impartiality.
7. Then why cbc claimed that in their test it show it is better? Well it is because of their methodology flaws. How long did they actually scrub the surface? Physical scrubbing can reduce germs as well as chemical. Did they scrub the surface the same way, with the same duration etc ?
8. Same for the uv lights desinfecting wand that best western claim to use: did the user properly use the lights? Did cbc actually read the manual? Uv lights is sensitive dependent on duration of exposure, distance of exposure etc... Hotels may use it, but do they properly take the time to properly expose the lights to the surface? Highly unlikely, with the maids limited cleaning time, and maybe it was the same as cbc marketplace.
While i may not question their " experts" qualification in this week`s show, i do suspect cbc edited his words to be out of context. Then cbc marketplace keeps repeating the same sensational phrases over and over again... It is not investigative journalism, it is more like "people" magazine mixed with fox and repeated in loops like cnn.
Same as last year, there was a marketplace show about buying glasses online: they pick 1, yes one, pair of glasses then test it properly with a dr. and showed that it was ok. Then based on that, cbc tried to show that ordering online is ok and safe for you.
That One specific glasses tested by marketplace may be tested ok for that customer, but how about over thousand and thousands of glasses?
There is a conclusive study made by the reputable universities (not some sham marketplace investigations, double blind, control group,), that showed that a significant percentage of eye glasses ordered online does not fit, not properly made, or are not right one way or another. Might as well order from china, no difference.
Does that mean that will you notice the eye glasses flaws? Not necessarily. You can wear the wrong eyeglasses that you ordered online, but if you are a tolerant type, or if you have never noticed or experienced what perfect vision is like, you may not notice. Same reasons as Why do you buy a canon dslr instead of using your ipad camera?
Similar as if you order drugs online. Will you notice if it is the wrong dose, expired, wrong ingredients, wrong drugs, not properly stored, etc.. and you will have side effects and die? Not necessarily. You take a gamble and the rest of us have to pay for your healthcare if something goes wrong. The rest of the drivers and the society also pay when you wear wrong glasses and something goes wrong.
Don't forget that in that eye glasses episode, their cbc marketplace experts is a technician that lost his optical license, he went to jail because he was found to be endangering the public with his methods of remote ordering and or prescribing. That whole show was clearly for promotion of one online company.
Cbc marketplace show is only in it for the ratings. Take it with a big grain of salt.
Last edited by globaltravelers; Nov 18, 2012 at 11:49 am
Nov 18, 2012, 6:04 am
#6
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@globaltravelers
You are of course correct. But my gut feel has always been that Fairmont rooms were subpar in relation to their marketing positioning. Even a sample of one should have passed so flying colors against comparables from Motel 6 etc. I am not surprised, but disappointed.
Note, Fairmont didn't agree to an interview. I wonder why.
My post was specifically about Fairmont.
You are of course correct. But my gut feel has always been that Fairmont rooms were subpar in relation to their marketing positioning. Even a sample of one should have passed so flying colors against comparables from Motel 6 etc. I am not surprised, but disappointed.
Note, Fairmont didn't agree to an interview. I wonder why.
My post was specifically about Fairmont.
Nov 18, 2012, 6:14 am
#7
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About fairmont: we are double platinum, but we are always disgusted to find comforters and decoratives pillows that seems to date from the middle ages. I understand that most of their canadian hotels are in historic properties, but seriously?
Like i said, they do not clean those comforters or decoratives pillow as often as you think. It is not only restricted to fairmonts, all the hotels are like that.
Soem hotels started to throw away and do not use those items in the guests rooms. That is why i like to stay in their new overseas fairmont, or at st regis.
Like i said, they do not clean those comforters or decoratives pillow as often as you think. It is not only restricted to fairmonts, all the hotels are like that.
Soem hotels started to throw away and do not use those items in the guests rooms. That is why i like to stay in their new overseas fairmont, or at st regis.
Nov 18, 2012, 6:30 am
#8
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Posts: 287
When and if you are faced to a "show" like cbc marketplace, that will edit your comments and take it out of context, and is completely one sided, that may not potentially give you a chance to explain in details, the proper response is to ignore their questionable "interview".
Nov 18, 2012, 8:33 am
#9
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Examples:
St. Andrews NB (now closed) (Old Formica counters, ancient decor, lousy food, peeling wallpaper)
Chateau Frontenac (torn sheets on arrival)
Reine Elisabeth (unclean carpets, cracked sink, food alright)
Royal York (just overall grimy, rust in bathroom,)
None of any others have ever been memorable. Cleanest looking overall has been Ch Mt Tremblant.
St. Andrews NB (now closed) (Old Formica counters, ancient decor, lousy food, peeling wallpaper)
Chateau Frontenac (torn sheets on arrival)
Reine Elisabeth (unclean carpets, cracked sink, food alright)
Royal York (just overall grimy, rust in bathroom,)
None of any others have ever been memorable. Cleanest looking overall has been Ch Mt Tremblant.
FWIW The "heritage" hotels I've stayed at including Olympic, San Francisco & Hotel Vancouver were all well maintained and more than comfortable while the newer locations like Chicago, Waterfront & YVR are of a high quality overall and among my favorites. This is obviously a case of YMMV.
Nov 18, 2012, 8:38 am
#10
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That's fine and thanks for quantifying which locations but you can't say that "most Fairmonts to be dated, substandard, poorly maintained" as I don't believe it to be true. A handful perhaps but you can't paint a whole chain with the same brush.
FWIW The "heritage" hotels I've stayed at including Olympic, San Francisco & Hotel Vancouver were all well maintained and more than comfortable while the newer locations like Chicago, Waterfront & YVR are of a high quality overall and among my favorites. This is obviously a case of YMMV.
FWIW The "heritage" hotels I've stayed at including Olympic, San Francisco & Hotel Vancouver were all well maintained and more than comfortable while the newer locations like Chicago, Waterfront & YVR are of a high quality overall and among my favorites. This is obviously a case of YMMV.
Nov 18, 2012, 10:13 am
#11
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Posts: 15
Some of you guys put up with a lot. I travel with sani wipes for the remote, lights etc and if anything is visibly dirty I ask for another room. The only thing I have put up with is old looking rooms (in a bad way) which after one stay the hotel goes on my do not stay list. i.e. Royal York. Set rules for yourself like Dexter and you will ensure a good stay.
Nov 18, 2012, 10:50 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Posts: 332
About fairmont: we are double platinum, but we are always disgusted to find comforters and decoratives pillows that seems to date from the middle ages. I understand that most of their canadian hotels are in historic properties, but seriously?
Like i said, they do not clean those comforters or decoratives pillow as often as you think. It is not only restricted to fairmonts, all the hotels are like that.
Soem hotels started to throw away and do not use those items in the guests rooms. That is why i like to stay in their new overseas fairmont, or at st regis.
Like i said, they do not clean those comforters or decoratives pillow as often as you think. It is not only restricted to fairmonts, all the hotels are like that.
Soem hotels started to throw away and do not use those items in the guests rooms. That is why i like to stay in their new overseas fairmont, or at st regis.
Nov 24, 2012, 1:23 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Posts: 2,554
Ok over the past five years I've stayed 3 weeks in the Palliser, 2 weeks in Hotel Vancouver, then 2 seperate weeks again, 2 weeks at Queen Elizabeth, a week in Chateau Whistler, and never got sick! I conclude, from my samples: it's no more dirtier than my own house. 
(Take a deep breath, everyone.)
(Take a deep breath, everyone.)
Nov 24, 2012, 4:07 pm
#14
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I am 50/50 on Fairmont lately.
The Acapulco properties range from perfectly outstanding (only the Acapulco Princess Pearl Tower) to downright disappointing and not maintained (Pierre Marques).
These properties regularly charge $200 USD nightly and much, much higher in peak season and there are pools with detached lighting in the water, broken tiling, towels with holes in them, bedsheets so thin that you can see through to the mattress, and Business Centres that are right out of the 1990s in technology.
The kicker this week was that I wanted to stay there to burn some spa certs and online at fairmont.com the lowest rate was 2000 MXN and on aircanada.com or expedia it was 950 MXN. To me that means these properties are running a shady operation and loyal FPC members are getting screwed if they are not careful. Moreover, without an official Fairmont BRG policy, these properties get away with the crap.
The Acapulco properties range from perfectly outstanding (only the Acapulco Princess Pearl Tower) to downright disappointing and not maintained (Pierre Marques).
These properties regularly charge $200 USD nightly and much, much higher in peak season and there are pools with detached lighting in the water, broken tiling, towels with holes in them, bedsheets so thin that you can see through to the mattress, and Business Centres that are right out of the 1990s in technology.
The kicker this week was that I wanted to stay there to burn some spa certs and online at fairmont.com the lowest rate was 2000 MXN and on aircanada.com or expedia it was 950 MXN. To me that means these properties are running a shady operation and loyal FPC members are getting screwed if they are not careful. Moreover, without an official Fairmont BRG policy, these properties get away with the crap.
Nov 25, 2012, 10:11 am
#15
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YVR
Posts: 640
Fairmont Vancouver is one too avoid for sure unless you get a recently renovated room. My first room on a recent stay was so dirty and it took them over 2 hours to get me a new room. They ended up giving me a free night for future use in a suite but I'm not even sure I want to chance anything like that again.
If it weren't for the Pacific Rim and my local Banff Springs, I wouldn't even care about platinum status. As a recently minted Hyatt Diamond it's been a breath of fresh air getting clean modern rooms, free breakfasts, club access on all stays.
We are even heading back to Hawaii in 8 weeks and I didn't even consider the Fairmonts for this trip.
If it weren't for the Pacific Rim and my local Banff Springs, I wouldn't even care about platinum status. As a recently minted Hyatt Diamond it's been a breath of fresh air getting clean modern rooms, free breakfasts, club access on all stays.
We are even heading back to Hawaii in 8 weeks and I didn't even consider the Fairmonts for this trip.