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Old Sep 11, 17, 5:58 pm   #46
  
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sbm12 While points raised here can be debated till the cows come home, let us be practical....... what actions do us humans take in the course of our lives that are undertaken without a wisp of some sort of gain direct or indirect, in cash or kind ?

I have volunteered for years at this event, seen the work of the organizers first hand. I could easily have not bought my ticket and just walked in....I do not, nor do any others.

Even the points earned by the organizers are given out as raffle prize. 100 % proceeds go to charity.
Yes the some presenters and stall holders gain from contacts and "sales". But then again they disseminate information not known to many of most attendees. Of great benefit to them.
Perhaps we / you & kokonutz should start a thread titled " How to collect miles like we do while not allowing anyone to profit from the knowledge we gain , here we tell you how we do it daily."
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Old Sep 11, 17, 8:26 pm   #47
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sbm12 While points raised here can be debated till the cows come home, let us be practical....... what actions do us humans take in the course of our lives that are undertaken without a wisp of some sort of gain direct or indirect, in cash or kind ?
None. Thanks for agreeing.

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I have volunteered for years at this event, seen the work of the organizers first hand. I could easily have not bought my ticket and just walked in....I do not, nor do any others.
Glad to ehar that you draw the line at not stealing from the organizers. I know some folks don't feel that way and have "cheated" their way into the FTU events in the past.

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Yes the some presenters and stall holders gain from contacts and "sales". But then again they disseminate information not known to many of most attendees. Of great benefit to them.
Again, thanks for agreeing. This is my point entirely. People profit from these events. That's okay.
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Perhaps we / you & kokonutz should start a thread titled " How to collect miles like we do while not allowing anyone to profit from the knowledge we gain , here we tell you how we do it daily."
I'm terribly confused why I'm being lumped in with kokonutz here. I believe in profiting from my work. I have a mortgage to pay. I see no problem with these events making money or with people making money by trading on the knowledge they posses that others want. I wish some were more ethical in their behavior, but we've got separate threads about all of those already.
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Old Sep 12, 17, 6:50 am   #48
  
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It's amusing, and unnecessary, to try and portray the event organizers & presenters as some sort of cilice-wearing monks with nothing directly or indirectly to gain. It sort of denies basic human nature, not to mention our capitalist economy.

Is there such a thing as pure altruism? I think so but it's extremely rare, limited to extraordinary acts and to an extremely small number of people who have attained a very high level of spiritual enlightenment (I don't think any of us here fall into that category - certainly I don't)! Some disagree that any act ever qualifies solely as altruistic.

Of course none of us can know for certain what is inside the mind of another no matter what the other person says. As I noted earlier, people can and often do have multiple motives for things. Saying that a business stands to gain a benefit from an activity doesn't mean they don't have other motivations such as exchanging knowledge or hanging out with other like-minded folks. But to act offended that there would be any potential business benefit to a presenter is silly.

Though I did notice that one blogger on this year's presenter list is well known to censor comments stating information contrary to the blogger's post or offer links. So not everyone there has a stellar track record when it comes to prioritizing self-interest. As a consumer I choose not to patronize that business and again that's all part of the system we have.
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Old Sep 12, 17, 11:15 am   #49
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Yes, I can tell you there was zero financial motivation when it started. Whether or not you choose to believe it is another story.

Yes, the speakers have the POTENTIAL, heck, you have the POTENTIAL for personal financial gain for posting in this thread.

Iíd like to know how much financial gain you think those participating will receive. Especially MMS, as a sponsor, which isnít going to attend, but wanted to support the event.

As for the whole impact for speakers, these presentations could just as easily be blog posts on their own. Why do they post them on their blogs? Because attendees ask them to do so and the best vehicle is to put it on their blog.

As for AwardWalletís benefit, if anything, it will be LESS this year than in past years. As someone that is financially compensated by AwardWallet, when I talk about AwardWallet I effectively have less ďstreet credĒ because Iím ďan insider.Ē Iíve said nothing but good things about AwardWallet in the past, and now I bring less value if anything.

Regarding your experiences, no, I donít want to hear about how you benefitted from them at FTU, because it isnít an apple to apple comparison.

It is also wrong when you wrongfully assume something without having any first-hand experience.
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Old Sep 12, 17, 1:28 pm   #50
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Yes, I can tell you there was zero financial motivation when it started. Whether or not you choose to believe it is another story.
I do not.

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Yes, the speakers have the POTENTIAL, heck, you have the POTENTIAL for personal financial gain for posting in this thread.
Correct.

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Iíd like to know how much financial gain you think those participating will receive. Especially MMS, as a sponsor, which isnít going to attend, but wanted to support the event.
A lot.

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As for the whole impact for speakers, these presentations could just as easily be blog posts on their own. Why do they post them on their blogs? Because attendees ask them to do so and the best vehicle is to put it on their blog.
Again, it goes back to the credibility position. Delivering a presentation to a paid audience is generally considered more prestigious than spouting off randomly on the internet.

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Regarding your experiences, no, I donít want to hear about how you benefitted from them at FTU, because it isnít an apple to apple comparison.
What's the difference?

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It is also wrong when you wrongfully assume something without having any first-hand experience.
I have plenty of first-hand experience in organizing this type of event. I'm not sure why you believe that's not the case.
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Old Sep 12, 17, 1:55 pm   #51
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It is unfortunate that you believe something which is incorrect, but that is the case. Maybe if we meet, we can continue the discussion in person. As for right here, I don't have it in me.
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Old Sep 12, 17, 8:43 pm   #52
  
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sbm12 be glad to meet, look me up at the registration desk Friday night.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 6:51 am   #53
  
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As sbm12 says, there is nothing "wrong" with making a living off of events like this, directly or indirectly by using them to promote your business.
Pretending that it's an altruistic exercise in community building and education is where the problem is. Selling access to information that could easily be obtained for freeee by using Google creates valid concerns, a la Trump University.
Does every presenter/organizer get rich? Of course not. But this is a business, that inherently relies on people who are sucked in by pictures of bloggers holding credit cards in and glasses of champagne and told they can travel for free.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 7:47 am   #54
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As sbm12 says, there is nothing "wrong" with making a living off of events like this, directly or indirectly by using them to promote your business.
Pretending that it's an altruistic exercise in community building and education is where the problem is. Selling access to information that could easily be obtained for freeee by using Google creates valid concerns, a la Trump University.
Does every presenter/organizer get rich? Of course not. But this is a business, that inherently relies on people who are sucked in by pictures of bloggers holding credit cards in and glasses of champagne and told they can travel for free.
Who's pretending? I'm not pretending. The purpose of this event is community building and education.

Do any presenters/organizers get rich because of THIS specific event? No, not even a little. Pretending that they do is where the problem is.
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Old Sep 13, 17, 12:04 pm   #55
  
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A brief cooling-off period perhaps?
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Old Sep 13, 17, 2:11 pm   #56
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Perhaps we / you & kokonutz should start a thread titled " How to collect miles like we do while not allowing anyone to profit from the knowledge we gain , here we tell you how we do it daily."
Wait...what?

I see my name bolded and have read that sentence 5 or 6 times but it still makes no sense to me.
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Old Sep 15, 17, 6:53 pm   #57
  
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The event is not driven by personal gain........
Wow.
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Old Sep 15, 17, 8:38 pm   #58
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its difficult if not impossible for a business to use the word "zero" with respect to "financial motivation". (not sure but perhaps similar to how even "nonprofits" can have all sorts of spending problems.) as usual i think there is some crosstalk, and text is not the most ideal form of communication.

there is also gain besides "financial" which i think may be one of the things lost in discussion.
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Old Sep 17, 17, 6:15 pm   #59
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Wow.
Ok, it is driven by the personal gain of attendees? That's at least what I'm trying to make sure we do, is help the attendees figure it out and get them achieving their travel goals -- or at least getting over the fear that they can't travel.
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Old Sep 17, 17, 6:16 pm   #60
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its difficult if not impossible for a business to use the word "zero" with respect to "financial motivation". (not sure but perhaps similar to how even "nonprofits" can have all sorts of spending problems.) as usual i think there is some crosstalk, and text is not the most ideal form of communication.

there is also gain besides "financial" which i think may be one of the things lost in discussion.
There is absolutely gain other than financial -- and that (other than financial) is what I feel is the significant driver.
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