Live and Lets Fly [merged]
May 22, 2017, 11:29 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,309
I've won some and lost some on mistake fares. You generally just have to roll with the punches.
I'm not saying there couldn't be some incidents where it's not an obvious mistake and the airline tries to weasel out - where you might file a complaint with any applicable regulatory agency. But those are pretty rare and even those wouldn't call for shenanigans like L&LF is doing.
I do think that the airlines should be held to the same time standard as customers to unilaterally cancel a ticket without penalty. So for example for US ticket sales, customers can't cancel or change after 24 hours without paying any change or cancel fees - so then airlines selling US tickets also have 24 hours to claim a mistake and cancel, otherwise they're held to the ticket. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
But nothing about this stunt (which is just what it is) that L&LF is pulling will do anything to change any laws or regulations (Canadian regs would apply anyway to his ticket). I'm not sure what his purpose was, other than creating some drama to generate clicks.
I'm not saying there couldn't be some incidents where it's not an obvious mistake and the airline tries to weasel out - where you might file a complaint with any applicable regulatory agency. But those are pretty rare and even those wouldn't call for shenanigans like L&LF is doing.
I do think that the airlines should be held to the same time standard as customers to unilaterally cancel a ticket without penalty. So for example for US ticket sales, customers can't cancel or change after 24 hours without paying any change or cancel fees - so then airlines selling US tickets also have 24 hours to claim a mistake and cancel, otherwise they're held to the ticket. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
But nothing about this stunt (which is just what it is) that L&LF is pulling will do anything to change any laws or regulations (Canadian regs would apply anyway to his ticket). I'm not sure what his purpose was, other than creating some drama to generate clicks.
One tricky thing about good for goose and gander is that the underlying contract law principle is already fairly applied; there are just inherent information asymmetries making this harder. When a purchaser buys a ticket knowing the offer is likely a mistake, it's a voidable contract. When an airline sells a ticket and Joe realizes 48 hours later he booked the wrong date, the airline had no way of knowing Joe made a mistake all along.
It's also hard to analogize- if I bought a ticket and want to change it more than 24 hours later, I'm not completely stuck - I just have to pay a penalty to change it. It's hard to come up with an analogous penalty here. The U.S. DOT has suggested the airline is on the hook for any expenses made in detrimental reliance. Here, of course, Matthew couldn't claim any expenses since he incurred them after being repeatedly told his ticket wasn't being honored.
Regardless, stunts like this don't help make the case for more forgiving policies for good faith customer mistakes, or more punitive policies for good faith airline mistakes. I really hope Matthew gets no compensation whatsoever for this disruptive tantrum. This isn't "denied boarding." It's "I was given options months ago and refused to accept any of them and the airline told me exactly what would happen months ago but I thought if I flew out there I could hoodwink them."
May 22, 2017, 1:47 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
One tricky thing about good for goose and gander is that the underlying contract law principle is already fairly applied; there are just inherent information asymmetries making this harder. When a purchaser buys a ticket knowing the offer is likely a mistake, it's a voidable contract. When an airline sells a ticket and Joe realizes 48 hours later he booked the wrong date, the airline had no way of knowing Joe made a mistake all along.
It's also hard to analogize- if I bought a ticket and want to change it more than 24 hours later, I'm not completely stuck - I just have to pay a penalty to change it. It's hard to come up with an analogous penalty here. The U.S. DOT has suggested the airline is on the hook for any expenses made in detrimental reliance. Here, of course, Matthew couldn't claim any expenses since he incurred them after being repeatedly told his ticket wasn't being honored.
Regardless, stunts like this don't help make the case for more forgiving policies for good faith customer mistakes, or more punitive policies for good faith airline mistakes. I really hope Matthew gets no compensation whatsoever for this disruptive tantrum. This isn't "denied boarding." It's "I was given options months ago and refused to accept any of them and the airline told me exactly what would happen months ago but I thought if I flew out there I could hoodwink them."
It's also hard to analogize- if I bought a ticket and want to change it more than 24 hours later, I'm not completely stuck - I just have to pay a penalty to change it. It's hard to come up with an analogous penalty here. The U.S. DOT has suggested the airline is on the hook for any expenses made in detrimental reliance. Here, of course, Matthew couldn't claim any expenses since he incurred them after being repeatedly told his ticket wasn't being honored.
Regardless, stunts like this don't help make the case for more forgiving policies for good faith customer mistakes, or more punitive policies for good faith airline mistakes. I really hope Matthew gets no compensation whatsoever for this disruptive tantrum. This isn't "denied boarding." It's "I was given options months ago and refused to accept any of them and the airline told me exactly what would happen months ago but I thought if I flew out there I could hoodwink them."
Used to be most in the community (with an occasionally loud exception) understood when it comes to mistake fares you roll the dice and take your chances - sometimes the house wins, sometimes not, but that's the game take it or leave it. Don't stand outside the casino with a big protest sign after you lost a game.
May 22, 2017, 2:06 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,670
May 22, 2017, 3:32 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CGK/LAX
Programs: KF,JMB, OZ, SPG,AA,UA,AS
Posts: 1,163
I used to enjoy reading Matthew's blog but his tone has changed a lot since moving over to BoardingArea.
May 22, 2017, 4:45 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
This is my sentiment to a T. I even posted enthusiastically about his joining BA but sad to say I've lost interest in his blog since the move due in large part to the tone / attitude
May 22, 2017, 5:11 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: DL PM; IHG PlatAmb; Hilton Dia; Marriott Plat; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 7,309
May 22, 2017, 5:44 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,423
He always came off as smug, entitled and annoying to me and I'm basing that on his posts at Travel Sort and also the awful picture he uses of himself. It just screams,"FA, fill my champagne glass NOW." I think of him and Lucky as being in the same category now and that's not a good thing though Matthew may think it is. Birds of a feather. I didn't read him when he came over to BA but did check his blog today and I agree it in really poor taste. I wonder if he boycotts LX as they didn't honor the RGN mistake fare. Nah, their F class is too good for him to boycott.
May 22, 2017, 7:24 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
L&LF posted a longer "recap" of his "Last Battle With Ethiopian Airlines" including his hidden camera videos, this evening.
What wasn't clear in the earlier post, the airline had previously offered (and was still offering when he was checking in at BKK) to let him fly in economy - so he wasn't stranded except by his own choice. Yet after all the back-and-forth, the local Ethiopian station manager arranged for a complimentary room at the airport Novotel after he mentioned not having had hotel arrangements for the night.
The post ends with:
Then a later post asks for readers to "Help Me Get Home: Three Choices". Those choices involving: (1) $280 + 80K UR points; (2) $1,000 cash + 49.5K Avios; (3) 100K UR points. So rather than admit defeat and fly home on the sunk costs ticket he already had, he's willing to shell out up to $1K or up to 100K of valiable UR points.
This, from the same person who wrote here:
http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.c...iopian-update/
You can't make this stuff up!
I think we may have a new leader in the BA most entitled, poor attitude, loss of perspective category.
What wasn't clear in the earlier post, the airline had previously offered (and was still offering when he was checking in at BKK) to let him fly in economy - so he wasn't stranded except by his own choice. Yet after all the back-and-forth, the local Ethiopian station manager arranged for a complimentary room at the airport Novotel after he mentioned not having had hotel arrangements for the night.
The post ends with:
Sadly, my story has a tragic ending. I failed and now have to determine how I am going to get back to LA. But this story isn’t over. Don’t worry, I wont’ be writing about it each day. I also will try not to hold a grudge against Ethiopian Airlines.
Then a later post asks for readers to "Help Me Get Home: Three Choices". Those choices involving: (1) $280 + 80K UR points; (2) $1,000 cash + 49.5K Avios; (3) 100K UR points. So rather than admit defeat and fly home on the sunk costs ticket he already had, he's willing to shell out up to $1K or up to 100K of valiable UR points.
This, from the same person who wrote here:
http://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.c...iopian-update/
I arrived into DMK at 3am in the morning and now I’ll give you some insight into how I think as a traveler. Money doesn’t grow on trees and every dollar I spend is one dollar less for charity, savings, or to lavish my family with. Not wanting to pay $250+ for what would amount to less than half a night at the new Park Hyatt, I reserved a room at a tiny little inn just a short walk from the airport. Price: $12.
I think we may have a new leader in the BA most entitled, poor attitude, loss of perspective category.
May 22, 2017, 7:38 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CGK/LAX
Programs: KF,JMB, OZ, SPG,AA,UA,AS
Posts: 1,163
I noticed some of the comments are giving him grief for taking this trip instead of spending time with his 7-month old child. I don't know what other "business" he was doing in Asia but I know if I had the option of spending more time with my child and family that would be the most important thing for me, not impressing the blog community.
May 22, 2017, 8:23 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,310
Hah, thought i was the only one creeped out by his blog picture
Guy has a newborn...it is odd him leaving his wife and the child to go cause a scene at an airline counter halfway around the world for no reason. There could be other reasons besides entitlement at play here...
Guy has a newborn...it is odd him leaving his wife and the child to go cause a scene at an airline counter halfway around the world for no reason. There could be other reasons besides entitlement at play here...
May 23, 2017, 1:57 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Wonder what the business model is now for airline focused sites? From what I can see, the credit card companies have pulled up the drawbridge on giving new sites links and keep culling the existing ones. You need 1m page views a month before your ad revenue hits $5k per month, and BA will want their 50% cut of that. I struggle to see what he is aiming for, unless it is a Ben-style profile or a sale to Bankrate.
May 23, 2017, 6:45 am
#27
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Perhaps a dedicated thread will be needed then.
I noticed some of the comments are giving him grief for taking this trip instead of spending time with his 7-month old child. I don't know what other "business" he was doing in Asia but I know if I had the option of spending more time with my child and family that would be the most important thing for me, not impressing the blog community.
I noticed some of the comments are giving him grief for taking this trip instead of spending time with his 7-month old child. I don't know what other "business" he was doing in Asia but I know if I had the option of spending more time with my child and family that would be the most important thing for me, not impressing the blog community.
Hah, thought i was the only one creeped out by his blog picture
Guy has a newborn...it is odd him leaving his wife and the child to go cause a scene at an airline counter halfway around the world for no reason. There could be other reasons besides entitlement at play here...
Guy has a newborn...it is odd him leaving his wife and the child to go cause a scene at an airline counter halfway around the world for no reason. There could be other reasons besides entitlement at play here...
As far as I can tell from the blog posts, his only other purpose in going to BKK was to be the first to review the new Park Hyatt there. Oddly, his new contributing writer also stayed at the same hotel, at the same time, and the contributor's post went up before Matthew's (oh, not counting the "quick look" post earlier).
His retort to the comments about leaving the family behind is that traveling and doing reviews is the core of his blogging business and lots of people have to travel for work even with a baby at home. All true of course, but especially since he had a contributor staying there for the opening weekend as well - other than pride, what point was there in Matthew flying all the way there to add another review of the same property simultaneously? And come on, it's a Park Hyatt. I'm skeptical that the trip would have happened in the end, were it not for this quest to battle Ethiopian.
Wonder what the business model is now for airline focused sites? From what I can see, the credit card companies have pulled up the drawbridge on giving new sites links and keep culling the existing ones. You need 1m page views a month before your ad revenue hits $5k per month, and BA will want their 50% cut of that. I struggle to see what he is aiming for, unless it is a Ben-style profile or a sale to Bankrate.
When I first noticed this blog on BA I liked it and thought it had potential for being useful and pretty active with content. Not so much now.
May 23, 2017, 6:47 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,423
Wonder what the business model is now for airline focused sites? From what I can see, the credit card companies have pulled up the drawbridge on giving new sites links and keep culling the existing ones. You need 1m page views a month before your ad revenue hits $5k per month, and BA will want their 50% cut of that. I struggle to see what he is aiming for, unless it is a Ben-style profile or a sale to Bankrate.
Yeah, he's spending more currency (whether cash or rewards) to get back and it's totally unnecessary since he could have flown back in economy. I didn't realize that Ethiopian had offered that.
May 23, 2017, 8:57 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,737
I don't get why Randy Peterson doesn't get involved. This can't be good for brand image for BA. With the news outlets covering almost any airline passenger story they can pick up, what would it look like for boarding area if one of their bloggers throws a tantrum on board and gets removed from a plane while everyone is recording the event on their phones and posting to social media?
I can't imagine TPG even allowing one of their writers to post garbage like this.
I can't imagine TPG even allowing one of their writers to post garbage like this.
May 23, 2017, 11:21 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,423
I don't get why Randy Peterson doesn't get involved. This can't be good for brand image for BA. With the news outlets covering almost any airline passenger story they can pick up, what would it look like for boarding area if one of their bloggers throws a tantrum on board and gets removed from a plane while everyone is recording the event on their phones and posting to social media?
I can't imagine TPG even allowing one of their writers to post garbage like this.
I can't imagine TPG even allowing one of their writers to post garbage like this.
Obviously Hyatt was paying something as there is a plethora of "WOW...10% back in Hyatt Point redemptions".