Alaska confirms: 'travel hackers' killed their Emirates Offerings
#61
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in PALMYRA, PA, USA
Posts: 58,512
Miles are different because you are filling seats which normal supply and demand has failed to fill.
This is why revenue based redemption is stupid.
Lets imagine well-timed flight A is $200 and badly timed flight B is $125. Under revenue based redemption, many people will still choose flight A and fill seats which could have been sold for real cash.
Under the current system, you simply make no seats available for flight A and push people onto flight B to fill seats that would otherwise be unsold.
Unless revenue based redemptions are also capacity controlled they will displace cash paying customers - which benefits no-one. Similarly, those empty J seats will remain empty when a revenue based redemption is 10 x the miles of a Y redemption - which simply pushes more pax into Y where the seats would sell.
This is why revenue based redemption is stupid.
Lets imagine well-timed flight A is $200 and badly timed flight B is $125. Under revenue based redemption, many people will still choose flight A and fill seats which could have been sold for real cash.
Under the current system, you simply make no seats available for flight A and push people onto flight B to fill seats that would otherwise be unsold.
Unless revenue based redemptions are also capacity controlled they will displace cash paying customers - which benefits no-one. Similarly, those empty J seats will remain empty when a revenue based redemption is 10 x the miles of a Y redemption - which simply pushes more pax into Y where the seats would sell.
Saver and standard awards are the first step toward dynamic pricing for award tickets. And as smb points out, as points become more and more revenue-based, selling an award seats at a point price based on supply and demand makes more sense than ever.
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
![Four Seasons Contributor Badge](/forum/products/hotel-reviews/img/badges/fourseasonscontributor.png)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,865
I had some suspicions about points.com involvement but wasn't sure. Thanks for the info you did provide. I had thought that the commission rates varied by type of transaction and perhaps also by access means.
And those award booking services help people buy points too? Interesting how this works.
And those award booking services help people buy points too? Interesting how this works.
Virgin America was 10% a few weeks ago. Normally 2.5%.
#63
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: Hilton-Diamond Lifetime Platinum AA UA, WN-CP, SPG Gold.
Posts: 7,377
Many years ago Chase United Card had a maximum points of !0,000 per month, today it is unlimited,
When we took a hit we applied for another card, wife's name.
Life is not always easy, as long as a seat is open, that is the main thing.,
When we took a hit we applied for another card, wife's name.
Life is not always easy, as long as a seat is open, that is the main thing.,
#64
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS after 40+ SFO/OAK
Programs: UA MM (recovering former 1K), Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 550
I completely disagree.
If Alaska had given warning, there would have been a rush/crush of 'travel hackers' buying/churning miles and soaking up every available seat at a huge cost to Alaska. Blogs would have gone crazy with 'ACT NOW, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!! BUY MILES! SIGN UP FOR A CARD AT MY AFFILIATE LINK!!!'
Alaska set those levels up to reward their BIS flyers with a nice little perk: cheap-ish award flights on Emirates. But with the cards and mile sales the hacking community was not just abusing that perk, they were gloating about abusing the perk. And would have done so harder and more had there been a sunset period.
So it WAS the hackers, not only who took so much advantage of the redemption levels that they had to raise them, but also that led to immediate implementation of them.
We need to own it when we strangle the goose that lays the golden eggs. Bloggers most of all.
If Alaska had given warning, there would have been a rush/crush of 'travel hackers' buying/churning miles and soaking up every available seat at a huge cost to Alaska. Blogs would have gone crazy with 'ACT NOW, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!! BUY MILES! SIGN UP FOR A CARD AT MY AFFILIATE LINK!!!'
Alaska set those levels up to reward their BIS flyers with a nice little perk: cheap-ish award flights on Emirates. But with the cards and mile sales the hacking community was not just abusing that perk, they were gloating about abusing the perk. And would have done so harder and more had there been a sunset period.
So it WAS the hackers, not only who took so much advantage of the redemption levels that they had to raise them, but also that led to immediate implementation of them.
We need to own it when we strangle the goose that lays the golden eggs. Bloggers most of all.
Oh, but them that would remove much of the incentive to buy miles, and there goes the free revenue golden goose starts to look sickly.
#65
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: CX MPC
Posts: 106
Bloggers caused the AS EK devaluation
Is anyone else as scared as me that AS will devalue their award chart significantly more, specifically the Cathay awards?
I hope I'm wrong, but Ive always defended Alaska (esp against DL) as the good guys, but after what they did in the dead of night for EK awards I'm getting more pessimistic about the airline and their MileagePlan program as the days go by.
I hope I'm wrong, but Ive always defended Alaska (esp against DL) as the good guys, but after what they did in the dead of night for EK awards I'm getting more pessimistic about the airline and their MileagePlan program as the days go by.
An F seat is very difficult to come upon unless you understand them...the blogs have publicized some of these patterns, but there are still pockets of opportunity...for now
#66
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SEA, FLL, Martha’s Vineyard
Programs: AS MVPGold75K, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Pan Am million-miler
Posts: 2,019
It might actually extend the lifetime of CX awards if everyone would just stop discussing them on FT to prevent the blogs from picking up on availability patterns.
An F seat is very difficult to come upon unless you understand them...the blogs have publicized some of these patterns, but there are still pockets of opportunity...for now
An F seat is very difficult to come upon unless you understand them...the blogs have publicized some of these patterns, but there are still pockets of opportunity...for now
If AS has to make these changes, they should do so it doesn't affect their most loyal customers somehow. Like having a different award chart for MVP's. It's not right for how long I've been stocking up on AS miles to plan that perfect EK vacation in F and to now know it will be impossible to achieve.
#67
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: CX MPC
Posts: 106
Well you're never gonna be able to stiffe information sharing on the Internet, and for bloggers to stop blogging, so that's why I'm concerned.
If AS has to make these changes, they should do so it doesn't affect their most loyal customers somehow. Like having a different award chart for MVP's. It's not right for how long I've been stocking up on AS miles to plan that perfect EK vacation in F and to now know it will be impossible to achieve.
If AS has to make these changes, they should do so it doesn't affect their most loyal customers somehow. Like having a different award chart for MVP's. It's not right for how long I've been stocking up on AS miles to plan that perfect EK vacation in F and to now know it will be impossible to achieve.
I certainly agree we can't stop them outright, but we can sure try to delay the onset of that fateful day...or in EK's case
![Frown](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif)
EK is certainly a harbinger of what's to come...but the bloggers really only have one real source of accessible information...hopefully we can come together as a community to try to make the most of this hobby without sending it into a premature burial.
Unless they're coming up with the "methods" themselves...they're essentially lurking on these forums and hawking the information out to generate page views...and huge CC referral payments
That blogger (HWMNBN) who went on a media tour with his exploitation of EK routing rules really put the proverbial nail in the coffin for us...admittedly there were a confluence of factors, but some guy running around with 5 AS credit cards isn't going to stay off the radars of EK and AS for very long.
We must admit that the airlines have dedicated individuals who monitor FT and willingly allow FTers to utilize miles for certain awards that may be a bit creative. But when these creative methods are making headlines of the major media outlets, the party won't last for much longer...
This is a hobby I thoroughly enjoy and take a lot of pride in; FT is a solid community with a lot of awesome folks. A lot of my trips wouldn't be possible outside of Y without the knowledge I've developed during my time on FT. Hopefully I'll be able to continue taking these trips outside of Y until the day I drop ^
Last edited by heyheyha; Apr 2, 2016 at 8:44 pm
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,338
#70
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: CX MPC
Posts: 106
Well you're never gonna be able to stiffe information sharing on the Internet, and for bloggers to stop blogging, so that's why I'm concerned.
If AS has to make these changes, they should do so it doesn't affect their most loyal customers somehow. Like having a different award chart for MVP's. It's not right for how long I've been stocking up on AS miles to plan that perfect EK vacation in F and to now know it will be impossible to achieve.
If AS has to make these changes, they should do so it doesn't affect their most loyal customers somehow. Like having a different award chart for MVP's. It's not right for how long I've been stocking up on AS miles to plan that perfect EK vacation in F and to now know it will be impossible to achieve.
![Wink](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Last edited by heyheyha; Apr 2, 2016 at 9:22 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,338
#72
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: CX MPC
Posts: 106
![Mad](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif)
#75
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,163
Let's not give them any ideas for devaluations by not having threads dedicated to possible devaluation scenarios.
Sometimes I feel like people actually want their FF programs to get devalued by throwing out bunch of ideas how a certain FF program can/will get devalued when the airline itself isn't even thinking about it.
Sometimes I feel like people actually want their FF programs to get devalued by throwing out bunch of ideas how a certain FF program can/will get devalued when the airline itself isn't even thinking about it.