Inside Flyer Magazine to stop publishing [relaunches online Q4/2015]
Oct 5, 2015, 6:00 am
#151
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
Good luck in getting this phantom "target market" to even take the time to locate the site and wade through it. I found it because I was a MP subscriber and it suddenly appeared on my MP link. But how do they plan to connect with the "target market" that isn't their old customers? And who besides the airplane/miles junkies is going to take the time to wade through all that "stuff?" Nobody, is my guess. The site is a solution without a need, an answer without a question.
Oct 5, 2015, 6:18 am
#152
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA | CLT, formerly LHR & AMS (with just a bit of PSP)
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, BonVoy Titanium, (soon former) Caesars7*, (former) Wynn Black, HR "Icon"
Posts: 8,172
The newbie newbie group. The "they think they know something" group. The "idiotic" non-attention to detail, too much disposable income crowd (includes some retirees). I ask lots and lots and lots of questions. Especially, since a number of hosts I consider good friends. The best info ("too much money crowd") can come about by just listening and being around. The things I have witnessed, make me continuously shake my head. But mostly, because if these people optimized what they did even 10% their entire situation (comp and otherwise) would be so much better. But, sometimes you can't teach 'em. In any event, there are a LOT of people in multiple categories that are yearning for just a little bit more insight.
Casino loyalty market "smarts" and "optimization" has barely been tapped by most of the mainstream travel sites. Also, the amount of mis-information is mind-boggling. Absolutely incredible. I read so much "bad information" I am often in awe.
Oct 5, 2015, 6:21 am
#153
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: UA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,659
I got easily bored with MP; it seemed shallower than FT. I looked at the IF site. They have about four articles on the landing page, endlessly repeated in different places--same photos, same headline. How to fly Etihad TATL in economy? What do I need to know? Hmmm, select a seat ahead of time, select a special meal, bring a snack. OK something worthwhile--bring an adapter for Etihad's headphones if you want to plug it into your own device. But, but, if I were planning to use my own device wouldn't I have brought my own headphones or earbuds?
Looks like it's geared for newbies, but the problem with newbies is that they don't know to look for this stuff and is a US newbie gonna be flying Etithad anyway?
Looks like it's geared for newbies, but the problem with newbies is that they don't know to look for this stuff and is a US newbie gonna be flying Etithad anyway?
Oct 5, 2015, 6:33 am
#154
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Posts: 102,095
I'm not laughing because there isn't money in it. I was amused because the FTer to the topic/location is pretty well informed about Vegas and gambling and someone whom I would turn to if I wanted more info about travel related to that topic.
Oct 5, 2015, 6:34 am
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,838
Well, there's a whole section of the blog devoted to Cruises now. Maybe CruiseCritic.com is the target.
Oct 5, 2015, 8:55 am
#156
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,155
Surely Gary, Ed, Tommy and Randy sat down and decided what existing product they are going to offer their existing customers/audience, and which new product and new customers/audience they want to capture with the platform...
Oct 5, 2015, 9:02 am
#157
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,596
I have heard the fellas say over and over that FlyerTalk only reaches a small segment of travelers and that there is a huge untapped market of travelers out there.
I don't know if that is the basis for a business case, but I suspect that's the audience/product they want to build.
Problem is, that space is damn crowded. It's not 1998 anymore and whatever they come up with they are far from first to market as Randy was back then.
And even then, as I said, the valuable piece of InsideFlyer was FlyerTalk. But he sold that piece. Hence my suspicion that they are slapping the less valuable MilePoint onto a new version of InsideFlyer digital magazine to try to get lightning to strike twice.
But maybe they do have something bigger in mind. I guess we'll see!
I don't know if that is the basis for a business case, but I suspect that's the audience/product they want to build.
Problem is, that space is damn crowded. It's not 1998 anymore and whatever they come up with they are far from first to market as Randy was back then.
And even then, as I said, the valuable piece of InsideFlyer was FlyerTalk. But he sold that piece. Hence my suspicion that they are slapping the less valuable MilePoint onto a new version of InsideFlyer digital magazine to try to get lightning to strike twice.
But maybe they do have something bigger in mind. I guess we'll see!
Oct 5, 2015, 9:55 am
#158
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
The key distinction was that a break-away IBB platform was created by former IB employees once their non-compete expired. That was the value proposition of MP once Randy's non-compete with FlyerTalk was (mostly) expired. Same topics. Same stuff. Different software. The ability to 'like' posts.
The secondary distinction was an ironic, and some say cynical, play. The two people most responsible for FlyerTalk's oft-criticized moderation tone and policy (lack of 'friendliness') as well as the organization of the place were Randy and Gary.
But when they decided to compete against FlyerTalk suddenly they were the biggest critics of the moderation tone and policy as well as the organization of the place. You know, the tone and policy THEY created.
That tactic ultimately failed.
And in the meantime Carol has massively improved FlyerTalk's moderator culture as well as the organization.
I know it's the era of disruptive technologies, but even in this world there is often a lot to be said for 'if it ain't broke don't fix it.'
FlyerTalk dabbles with adaptations, and some stick and become incredibly useful (I'm lookin' at you, thread wikis). But I am glad IB and Carol don't mess with FT too much.
BTW, apropos of nothing, but this is NOT a disruptive new move by IF. More like back to the past. When I first found FlyerTalk in 1998 it was nothing more than a tiny little experiment under the banner of Randy's main online venture: a digital version of his print publication called...well...Inside Flyer. The other apps, bells and whistles were on a site called WebFlyer. Which, afaik, still exists too.
Eventually FlyerTalk took off and IF went away. Until now.
The secondary distinction was an ironic, and some say cynical, play. The two people most responsible for FlyerTalk's oft-criticized moderation tone and policy (lack of 'friendliness') as well as the organization of the place were Randy and Gary.
But when they decided to compete against FlyerTalk suddenly they were the biggest critics of the moderation tone and policy as well as the organization of the place. You know, the tone and policy THEY created.
That tactic ultimately failed.
And in the meantime Carol has massively improved FlyerTalk's moderator culture as well as the organization.
I know it's the era of disruptive technologies, but even in this world there is often a lot to be said for 'if it ain't broke don't fix it.'
FlyerTalk dabbles with adaptations, and some stick and become incredibly useful (I'm lookin' at you, thread wikis). But I am glad IB and Carol don't mess with FT too much.
BTW, apropos of nothing, but this is NOT a disruptive new move by IF. More like back to the past. When I first found FlyerTalk in 1998 it was nothing more than a tiny little experiment under the banner of Randy's main online venture: a digital version of his print publication called...well...Inside Flyer. The other apps, bells and whistles were on a site called WebFlyer. Which, afaik, still exists too.
Eventually FlyerTalk took off and IF went away. Until now.
The point of IF, as I understand it, is that it is not for you. If you read Flyertalk, you are not the target market.
Where is the money? Newbies / mainstream. After all, it is hard to make money off a group of people who are ingrained to squeeze out the best deal every time (ie us).
The 'issue' I have, so far, is the Avianca deal. I have never, ever mentioned Avianca on Head for Points because it is not something that I am happy to promote to my, fairly mainstream, audience. I don't want to be responsible if they get burned. It is also a massive jump for a reader who reads me to learn about new Hilton promos to be told to spend thousands buying miles in a foreign FF scheme where the call centre struggles to even speak English.
You can't have it both ways. If they want 'mainstream', they can't be pushing Avianca heavily.
The crux is whether this 'mainstream' market exists in a big way. Let's assume, on made up numbers, that 10 per cent of SkyMiles members take it seriously enough to read FT. The only 90 per cent do not take it seriously at all and have never looked at a frequent flyer website ever. My wife is firmly in this category - she doesn't even read my site :-) The IF model assume that a chunk of this 90 per cent is up for grabs.
I look at 'Business Traveller' magazine as an example. If even a tiny percentage of business travellers gave a toss about business travel as a subject, Business Traveller would be a magazine with GQ-style sales figures. Instead it is a very niche product. How does IF grab the 90 per cent where Business Traveller, over 40 years, has failed?
I go to supermarkets a lot. I don't read any magazines about supermarkets, though, or visit any supermarket focussed websites. If an Inside Flyer style site appeared for the supermarket / grocery sector, I still wouldn't read it.
The other issue, I suppose, is whether the IF team - which is so wholly ingrained in the FF community - can step back enough to understand the mainstream market. What always fascinated me about TPG and MMS is that these guys were not major FlyerTalk participants before starting their sites and did not have any baggage in terms of how they thought about the market.
Where is the money? Newbies / mainstream. After all, it is hard to make money off a group of people who are ingrained to squeeze out the best deal every time (ie us).
The 'issue' I have, so far, is the Avianca deal. I have never, ever mentioned Avianca on Head for Points because it is not something that I am happy to promote to my, fairly mainstream, audience. I don't want to be responsible if they get burned. It is also a massive jump for a reader who reads me to learn about new Hilton promos to be told to spend thousands buying miles in a foreign FF scheme where the call centre struggles to even speak English.
You can't have it both ways. If they want 'mainstream', they can't be pushing Avianca heavily.
The crux is whether this 'mainstream' market exists in a big way. Let's assume, on made up numbers, that 10 per cent of SkyMiles members take it seriously enough to read FT. The only 90 per cent do not take it seriously at all and have never looked at a frequent flyer website ever. My wife is firmly in this category - she doesn't even read my site :-) The IF model assume that a chunk of this 90 per cent is up for grabs.
I look at 'Business Traveller' magazine as an example. If even a tiny percentage of business travellers gave a toss about business travel as a subject, Business Traveller would be a magazine with GQ-style sales figures. Instead it is a very niche product. How does IF grab the 90 per cent where Business Traveller, over 40 years, has failed?
I go to supermarkets a lot. I don't read any magazines about supermarkets, though, or visit any supermarket focussed websites. If an Inside Flyer style site appeared for the supermarket / grocery sector, I still wouldn't read it.
The other issue, I suppose, is whether the IF team - which is so wholly ingrained in the FF community - can step back enough to understand the mainstream market. What always fascinated me about TPG and MMS is that these guys were not major FlyerTalk participants before starting their sites and did not have any baggage in terms of how they thought about the market.
I'm skeptical that the "90%" will really materialize as some sort of gigantic new user base for them. It seems like those folks already have plenty of established sources for general travel information, advice, tips. The new site has a long road to go if they want to become a LonelyPlanet, TripAdvisor, Fodors', or whatever beyond just FFPs.
Anecdotally at least, most folks that I know have a bit of interest in this area when I explain how I afford to travel as I do. But the vast majority of them never follow through with exploring the FFP resources or taking me up on offers to help them...instead they go about as they always have and redeem exorbitant amounts of miles for high-level domestic flights and get hotels from Priceline, etc.. Just look at how many one-post-wonders come along here wanting advice for their trip or loyalty program help, and then never show up again even after FT'ers chime in with assistance and follow-up questions.
The other smaller group does end up getting immersed in all this stuff but then if the "gamers" like us aren't the target audience for MPdbaIF, then that's no help to them. Maybe I'm wrong but it really seems like people either fall in love with the FFP world or just barely skim the surface.
Oct 5, 2015, 12:26 pm
#159
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,420
How many destination wedding/honeymoons does a person make in a lifetime? 1 maybe 2? Seems to be a small niche market compared to business or general leisure travel.
Oct 5, 2015, 7:05 pm
#160
formerly known as felinaar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, AS MVPG, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 612
My only role in IF is to try to manage the content that goes on the front page to make sure it is useful and not duplicated by multiple bloggers. I think all of you can appreciate efforts to avoid duplicate content. As for whether it is useful, that's subjective. My goal is to provide advice to the writers with a light touch.
Oct 5, 2015, 7:46 pm
#161
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA | CLT, formerly LHR & AMS (with just a bit of PSP)
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, BonVoy Titanium, (soon former) Caesars7*, (former) Wynn Black, HR "Icon"
Posts: 8,172
Hmm... so you are saying they have no specific business case? Surely Gary, Ed, Tommy and Randy sat down and decided what existing product they are going to offer their existing customers/audience, and which new product and new customers/audience they want to capture with the platform...
Surely Gary, Ed, Tommy and Randy sat down and decided what existing product they are going to offer their existing customers/audience, and which new product and new customers/audience they want to capture with the platform...
Oct 5, 2015, 8:10 pm
#162
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,596
My only role in IF is to try to manage the content that goes on the front page to make sure it is useful and not duplicated by multiple bloggers. I think all of you can appreciate efforts to avoid duplicate content. As for whether it is useful, that's subjective. My goal is to provide advice to the writers with a light touch.
Seriously though, good luck!
Oct 5, 2015, 8:14 pm
#163
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Usually a pimp gets a cut. I am not an investor in IF and have no control over the ads, the forum, or partner relationships. I was just trying to share an offer that some people may be interested in.
My only role in IF is to try to manage the content that goes on the front page to make sure it is useful and not duplicated by multiple bloggers. I think all of you can appreciate efforts to avoid duplicate content. As for whether it is useful, that's subjective. My goal is to provide advice to the writers with a light touch.
My only role in IF is to try to manage the content that goes on the front page to make sure it is useful and not duplicated by multiple bloggers. I think all of you can appreciate efforts to avoid duplicate content. As for whether it is useful, that's subjective. My goal is to provide advice to the writers with a light touch.
Good luck with the new gig. I do like your blog and hope it stays of good quality despite the new demands on your time.
For a more balanced perspective on the Avianca promo:
http://blog.wandr.me/2015/10/a-huge-...orth-skipping/
Last edited by 84fiero; Oct 5, 2015 at 8:22 pm
Oct 5, 2015, 8:55 pm
#164
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,838
For a more balanced perspective on the Avianca promo:
http://blog.wandr.me/2015/10/a-huge-...orth-skipping/
http://blog.wandr.me/2015/10/a-huge-...orth-skipping/
https://insideflyer.com/2015/10/mile...lyer/#comments
"Here’s an example: we simply ran out of time because we were able to secure the LifeMiles promo for our members at the eleventh hour. We really prefer not to have that “notice” on our front page but because of the interest in such a thing (thousands of members already have registered) we did not want to miss passing along something that was exclusive to us."
(Holding added)
I find it hard to believe that there are thousands lining up for the Avianca offer. But obviously I have no insights.
Oct 5, 2015, 11:57 pm
#165
formerly known as felinaar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, AA Gold, AS MVPG, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 612