One Mile at a Time [OMaaT] discussions [merged]
#571
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,130
Its a difficult line to follow... OMaaT is 'baring it all' on RS, so people are talking about it. When UA 'ban' was not documented, we removed all comments detailing anything. Yesterday I went back two weeks in this thread and cleaned up most of it. Feel free to report anything you think needs further clean up, but do add a reason.
Regards Oliver2002
Mod EM&PR forum
Regards Oliver2002
Mod EM&PR forum
#572
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
#573
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,737
My memory of this was that it was a glitch in the UA IT software. You could use points for 1 trip that could become more as long as you flew out of one city, returned to a different US city, flew out immediately again, rinse and repeat. The software only charged points for 1 RT. You had to love flying simply for the sake of flying to do it.
#574
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: Gold: VS, SQ, AF/KL
Posts: 254
#575
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stockholm
Programs: Various
Posts: 3,368
Then it turns out that Lucky is a onepercenter that probably paid for a lot of these trips with cash.
#576
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SMF, SNA
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum Elite, IHG Diamond
Posts: 175
It's like those real estate guys on infomercials in the early 2000's, going on about how we can all be instant millionaires by "easily" flipping properties. Meanwhile, what they never disclosed is that they were millionaires by selling subscriptions to their services. TPG is in the same 1%, and even sold his site to a large company. I don't doubt these guys have millions of miles and points, but I do think they're also very well off financially from site activities. I don't blame them, it's a business and they very creatively and smartly found a good niche that works. The rest of us really can't be too bitter about it; if we've gotten as far as finding FT, we should be in this "hobby" with eyes wide open.
#577
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA 1k/1mm+, National EE, IC Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,605
The reality is that Lucky and TPG and others are all selling a dream that is VERY hard to come close to. Even those of us who have been at this for a while (since the mid 1990s in my case), this is just a much different environment now than it used to be.
1) Miles are harder to earn. DL, UA, and WN have tied earning RDMs to spend. That means for anyone flying those two airlines, even people who fly a lot, unless they are flying exorbitant fares or only shorthops, they got a haircut. In the meantime, shopping portals have lost lots of avenues to earn (UR stopped featuring hotels.com, IHG, etc as partners).
2) Miles are more difficult to use. Airlines have more data and can do better analysis on what flights are likely to sell out and which ones aren't. And with loadfactors at all time highs, fares at healthy levels, and airlines at record profit margins, there is very little incentive to hand out easy redemptions. I've been booking awards for 20 years and have never seen it this difficult. This hits people who are less schedule flexible (say with kids) especially hard.
3) Churning is dying. Chase? Dead. Amex? Dead. Citi? Not yet dead. The signup bonuses are bigger but they are no longer as frequently churnable. And that's for folks with spotless credit.
4) Taxes and surcharges are WAY higher than they used to be for "free" tix. "Taxes on BA for AUS-LHR-AUS? North of $700 per person. I flew UA for about the same as that on a discount fare last year. And there are so many airlines that now charge YQ.
5) The big winners are those who can use their corporate card to charge large or frequent purchases and reimburse or those who have the time and risk appetite to MS.
For the VAST MAJORITY of frequent fliers, MS is neither practical and too risky. Jobs where one can charge hundreds of thousands and get reimbursed don't grow on trees. The earning has become more difficult and the redemption is becoming more difficult, too.
Take a guy like me and let's assume I am single and unbound...I earn 400k RDMs per year from flying, another 100k from credit card spend, and another 100k from hotel stays.
How much does that buy me these days? Say 500k RDMs is 2-3 rt F trips on LH using UA MP and the 100k hotel points amounts to 2 nights at a nice property with most chains?
That doesn't even get close to covering dozens of F flights and 365 days of hotel annually. Clearly, most of Lucky's hotel stays are revenue stays and even a percentage of his flights have to be paid because one can't fly that much for free.
And that is my only beef. It makes it all sound so easy and it just isn't anymore. Granted, it used to be. But the dream they sell is only possible if someone puts a truckload of effort and time into it. Something that MOST people don't have because they have jobs, spouses, kids, friends, hobbies etc. That's why the article title is so misleading. Lucky must spend between $50k-$100k on travel each year.
The median household income in the US was $51,939 in 2013 and in real terms (adjusted for inflation), that number has been declining and is now lower than it was at any time before 1996.
So one concern I have is that folks put themselves into questionable territory by opening and attempting to manage a bucketload of credit cards, only to have to deal with poor availability, outrageously poor mileage valuation, exorbitant time required to string together itineraries and to understand the programs, all of whih could be a net loss to them in the long run.
1) Miles are harder to earn. DL, UA, and WN have tied earning RDMs to spend. That means for anyone flying those two airlines, even people who fly a lot, unless they are flying exorbitant fares or only shorthops, they got a haircut. In the meantime, shopping portals have lost lots of avenues to earn (UR stopped featuring hotels.com, IHG, etc as partners).
2) Miles are more difficult to use. Airlines have more data and can do better analysis on what flights are likely to sell out and which ones aren't. And with loadfactors at all time highs, fares at healthy levels, and airlines at record profit margins, there is very little incentive to hand out easy redemptions. I've been booking awards for 20 years and have never seen it this difficult. This hits people who are less schedule flexible (say with kids) especially hard.
3) Churning is dying. Chase? Dead. Amex? Dead. Citi? Not yet dead. The signup bonuses are bigger but they are no longer as frequently churnable. And that's for folks with spotless credit.
4) Taxes and surcharges are WAY higher than they used to be for "free" tix. "Taxes on BA for AUS-LHR-AUS? North of $700 per person. I flew UA for about the same as that on a discount fare last year. And there are so many airlines that now charge YQ.
5) The big winners are those who can use their corporate card to charge large or frequent purchases and reimburse or those who have the time and risk appetite to MS.
For the VAST MAJORITY of frequent fliers, MS is neither practical and too risky. Jobs where one can charge hundreds of thousands and get reimbursed don't grow on trees. The earning has become more difficult and the redemption is becoming more difficult, too.
Take a guy like me and let's assume I am single and unbound...I earn 400k RDMs per year from flying, another 100k from credit card spend, and another 100k from hotel stays.
How much does that buy me these days? Say 500k RDMs is 2-3 rt F trips on LH using UA MP and the 100k hotel points amounts to 2 nights at a nice property with most chains?
That doesn't even get close to covering dozens of F flights and 365 days of hotel annually. Clearly, most of Lucky's hotel stays are revenue stays and even a percentage of his flights have to be paid because one can't fly that much for free.
And that is my only beef. It makes it all sound so easy and it just isn't anymore. Granted, it used to be. But the dream they sell is only possible if someone puts a truckload of effort and time into it. Something that MOST people don't have because they have jobs, spouses, kids, friends, hobbies etc. That's why the article title is so misleading. Lucky must spend between $50k-$100k on travel each year.
The median household income in the US was $51,939 in 2013 and in real terms (adjusted for inflation), that number has been declining and is now lower than it was at any time before 1996.
So one concern I have is that folks put themselves into questionable territory by opening and attempting to manage a bucketload of credit cards, only to have to deal with poor availability, outrageously poor mileage valuation, exorbitant time required to string together itineraries and to understand the programs, all of whih could be a net loss to them in the long run.
#578
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,416
Well, it seems to be working. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25155786-post360.html
The same question was posted in 3 places.
This is also interesting: http://www.google.com/trends/explore...=Etc%2FGMT%2B7
Seems the advertainment in RS was worth the money.
The same question was posted in 3 places.
This is also interesting: http://www.google.com/trends/explore...=Etc%2FGMT%2B7
Seems the advertainment in RS was worth the money.
Last edited by skunker; Jul 22, 2015 at 12:01 pm
#579
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,737
What's not free:
- Expense to manufacture spend in order to meet spending bonus requirements.
- Taxes and fees on award bookings
- Fees if you hire someone to book your award trip
- Annual credit card fees
- If you value your time searching for awards, driving to the store, driving to the bank, making online payments, etc... can add up to several hours.
Ben's travel typically does not come directly from cash purchased first class flights. He buys miles, uses credit card sign ups, lives in a hotel, mileage runs, and has a business that charges a lot of travel related expenses that earns points. Though he does from time to time purchase first class travel and does pay cash for hotels.
The misnomer that many fanboys of Ben and other popular bloggers put out there is that he is where he is because of his talent, dedication, and hard work. I think others have just pointed out that the involvement of his family financially backing him from a young age, the UA scam, and making complaints in order to seek compensation also played an important part of his early success (or ability to stay afloat). The article also skipped over the time that he spent as a travel agent...
There is also an element that Ben's experiences are not what one should expect through similar travel. He is a well known blogger that may receive special treatment. He is well known for "reaching out" through social media when something goes wrong. He is well known for broadcasting where he is through social media (checking-in on planes and hotels) and tagging the hotel/airline in the message. He has had relationships with the companies that he often reviews or documents.
Also, it has been disclosed that many bloggers reach out to airlines and hotels before their trip. At the end of the day his blog is still a great resource for photos airline and hotel products if you want to see photos. He also has documented the process of how to use your miles and points to obtain that travel if you have said miles/points in your account.
I still think Ben is talented and very successful at what he does. There are very few bloggers that are well received in this forum... (Frequent Miler, Wandering Aramean, etc..). To some extent there is always going to be some negative sentiment towards travel bloggers as they are for the most part making a living through credit card referrals, bring an influx of new people into The Hobby, and kill "deals" faster by detailing them in full and sending them out to a wider audience who may not have otherwise been involved in the deal due to the amount of time and research involved.
Last edited by Astrophsx; Jul 22, 2015 at 12:38 pm
#580
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: yyz
Posts: 1,611
i don't get the personal attacks on Ben either. good for him, he's making a good living blah blah.
that said...the AS folks are probably going to flip out on his latest post. highlighting the EK redemptions to all the new eyeballs coming to his site.
that said...the AS folks are probably going to flip out on his latest post. highlighting the EK redemptions to all the new eyeballs coming to his site.
#581
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,737
Okay... Maybe I'm wrong about the selling of the lifestyle:
I earn well over a million miles a year, which I don’t think is really unattainable for most. All of the techniques I use are within the terms and conditions of the various programs — it’s about knowing the rules, not breaking them.
I probably fly about 200,000 miles per year on American, and as an Executive Platinum member I get a 100% bonus on miles, so that’s 400,000 miles right there. Living in hotels has also given me the opportunity to rack up points on hotel spend, which has made that practice more sustainable.
I pick up 2-3 cards every three months or so, so I’m constantly on the look out for the best sign-up bonuses. I earn upwards of 500,000 points each year from credit card sign-ups alone, so taking advantage of the best offers is key for me.
I would have to disagree and believe that earning 1,000,000 through the listed methods is not obtainable for most. Also, well over 1 million miles... That's 900,000 right there. If you are flying as often as he does, flying family members (who may have points/miles from CC sign ups), and then flying a reporter on a few trips I'm going to assume that you are burning well over 1 mil in miles/points. He also glosses over the purchasing of miles and how he obtains the other miles.
My theory is that Ben saw the bump in readers that Mommy Points gets from being featured on Nightline... He some networked with this reporter and sold him on the story with the promise of free first class flights knowing in the end it would get him a bump in new readers after the story was published.
I earn well over a million miles a year, which I don’t think is really unattainable for most. All of the techniques I use are within the terms and conditions of the various programs — it’s about knowing the rules, not breaking them.
I probably fly about 200,000 miles per year on American, and as an Executive Platinum member I get a 100% bonus on miles, so that’s 400,000 miles right there. Living in hotels has also given me the opportunity to rack up points on hotel spend, which has made that practice more sustainable.
I pick up 2-3 cards every three months or so, so I’m constantly on the look out for the best sign-up bonuses. I earn upwards of 500,000 points each year from credit card sign-ups alone, so taking advantage of the best offers is key for me.
I would have to disagree and believe that earning 1,000,000 through the listed methods is not obtainable for most. Also, well over 1 million miles... That's 900,000 right there. If you are flying as often as he does, flying family members (who may have points/miles from CC sign ups), and then flying a reporter on a few trips I'm going to assume that you are burning well over 1 mil in miles/points. He also glosses over the purchasing of miles and how he obtains the other miles.
My theory is that Ben saw the bump in readers that Mommy Points gets from being featured on Nightline... He some networked with this reporter and sold him on the story with the promise of free first class flights knowing in the end it would get him a bump in new readers after the story was published.
#582
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, Admirals Club, Global Entry
Posts: 1,141
Well, well, well.
I'm glad to see, finally, a few value-add posts free from ad hominem rancor. Those of you who have been around Flyer Talk for longer than the short while I've been around will no doubt draw your own conclusions.
I would only add, or rather reemphasize, the importance of near-unlimited scheduling flexibility. I mean, really, who amongst the gainfully and fully employed can drop everything to fly across the Pacific six times in little more than a week? Not I.
I'm not even going to talk about paid fares ex places like Colombo or Cairo.
And living in hotels full time with a monthly home-fires maintenance nut equal to exactly zero has got to help, too.
There's hard-to-duplicate magic, in other words, on both the earning and the burning sides.
I could be wrong, but I consequently believe that many read the site not to duplicate the whole lifestyle -- who could do that? -- but rather to cherry-pick the little pieces, the reviews and tips, that are most personally useful. I've used a few and, for me, that's enough.
That's all putting aside the sheer entertainment value, of course.
I'm glad to see, finally, a few value-add posts free from ad hominem rancor. Those of you who have been around Flyer Talk for longer than the short while I've been around will no doubt draw your own conclusions.
I would only add, or rather reemphasize, the importance of near-unlimited scheduling flexibility. I mean, really, who amongst the gainfully and fully employed can drop everything to fly across the Pacific six times in little more than a week? Not I.
I'm not even going to talk about paid fares ex places like Colombo or Cairo.
And living in hotels full time with a monthly home-fires maintenance nut equal to exactly zero has got to help, too.
There's hard-to-duplicate magic, in other words, on both the earning and the burning sides.
I could be wrong, but I consequently believe that many read the site not to duplicate the whole lifestyle -- who could do that? -- but rather to cherry-pick the little pieces, the reviews and tips, that are most personally useful. I've used a few and, for me, that's enough.
That's all putting aside the sheer entertainment value, of course.
#583
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ONT
Programs: AGR, UA, AA
Posts: 476
Yeah, there is useful content although I find that more of it comes from his co-writers and not from Ben himself.
When he was a teenager and mileage running across the country to get his parents first class for their trips to Germany, that probably came out as a wash or moderately profitable compared to purchasing the tickets with cash. Ben liked it because he got to fly around the country, although spending times in airport hubs like Detroit and Denver would not in my mind count as seeing the country.
When he was a teenager and mileage running across the country to get his parents first class for their trips to Germany, that probably came out as a wash or moderately profitable compared to purchasing the tickets with cash. Ben liked it because he got to fly around the country, although spending times in airport hubs like Detroit and Denver would not in my mind count as seeing the country.
#584
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,737
I could be wrong, but I consequently believe that many read the site not to duplicate the whole lifestyle -- who could do that? -- but rather to cherry-pick the little pieces, the reviews and tips, that are most personally useful. I've used a few and, for me, that's enough.
That's all putting aside the sheer entertainment value, of course.
That's all putting aside the sheer entertainment value, of course.
You do have to say that while he isn't selling his lifestyle... The word of mouth about his lifestyle drives traffic. "Hey, have you heard about this guy that basically lives in first class? He's tricking the industry and is a travel hacker. I follow him and I'm going to (insert international destination) in first class after following his advice".
I agree that it is all entertainment for the most part. Although if I were someone new I'd be a little overwhelmed with 5+ posts per day and 3 other travel writers (easy not to see who wrote the post if you skim too quickly).
#585
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,585
It's a sad irony that points and miles obsessive bloggers are getting media exposure just as the game is coming to an end. But maybe that's a good thing as this kind of attention is not going to make the programs any more generous. It's only going to make the so-called 'idiots' (yes, I saw the non-apology explanation for that quote) who run the programs clamp down that much faster and harder.