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Old Jul 7, 17, 3:53 am   #346
  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Of course different jurisdictions have different regulatory regimes. It's not like the regulatory regimes are even consistent all across the EU in this regard either. But what does that change? People adapt to local conditions.



As indicated earlier, I still don't buy that for a NYC minute. Even non-US bloggers in this space have made a living from blogging -- including in non-US localities that are not the Wild West in terms of regulations. US bloggers that made a rather decent return from blogging about loyalty programs have had different amounts of iicing on the cake from credit cards. The same sort of dynamic is applicable from here in the EU too.

And now we have some from the EU here even confirming the same as I indicated.



The business model only works when bloggers live in the Wild West -- even if it's the wilds of western London or western Germany or in the gun-slinging US. Oh wait, bloggers in this space in heavily underbanked localities are also making dimes and then some in this space.
Yes, I agree that bloggers like raffles make significantly smaller income than the Titans using completely different business models, since the business models used by American points and miles blogs like TPG is unique to America. Not sure what you're even arguing about at this point. Or what you're not buying for a "NYC minute." The point you got exercised by was that a specific business model is uniquely American. I never said other business models dont exist. Indeed I explicitly said so?

Oliver, totally agree about sbm12. I don't consider his blog a "miles and points" blog, and it certainly doesn't have the business model we've been talking about on this thread for 4 years. Indeed, I respect his writing generally much more, because he lacks the conflicts of interest associated with credit card ads masquerading as content. I've never criticized the idea of making money from blogging. Indeed I think bloggers like Cranky and Seth produce high quality information and content without any deceptive business practices.

The sky is blue. The earth orbits the sun. I await an argument why I'm wrong.

have a blessed day!

Last edited by Adam1222; Jul 7, 17 at 4:00 am
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Old Jul 7, 17, 4:19 am   #347
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The blogging that goes on in various parts of the EU is not a completely different business model than the blogging that goes on in various parts of the US. While the market opportunities vary, I'm not convinced by a twisted notion of American exceptionalism that says the US is the wild west of non-regulation and that primarily explains the US bloggers' returns.

Plenty of bloggers in the EU looked to the US blogging businesses and imported the models from there to here with some customization of course. While the returns and opportunities vary, that's even the case in the US for bloggers.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 7, 17 at 4:24 am
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Old Jul 7, 17, 4:30 am   #348
  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The blogging that goes on in various parts of the EU is not a completely different business model than the blogging that goes on in various parts of the US. While the market opportunities vary, I'm not convinced by a twisted notion of American exceptionalism that says the US is the wild west of non-regulation and that primarily explains the US bloggers' returns.

Plenty of bloggers in the EU looked to the US blogging businesses and imported the models from there to here with some customization of course. While the returns and opportunities vary, that's even the case in the US for bloggers.
To me, a business model that is explicitly not based on credit card affiliate income and pushing credit cards differs from one that does not. Credit card points/miles bonuses are simply not comparable in other countries. I guess if you define business model at a high enough level of generality you can convince yourself you are right. But no, you cannot pretend that credit card marketing is similar in other countries. There are facts.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 5:21 am   #349
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Credit card marketing in the US isn't all that different from credit card marketing in some places outside of the US. While the US has a uniquely large well-banked population in the market for particular credit card products, the card-issuers and/or the card-issuers affiliate partners outside of the US do plenty of the same kind of things that are being done in the US too -- even as the numbers and other factors mean a customization of the business model is part of the picture for those who do make a living out of blogging outside of the US too.

What is true from the bottom-up is true from the top-down too.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 6:17 am   #350
  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Credit card marketing in the US isn't all that different from credit card marketing in some places outside of the US. While the US has a uniquely large well-banked population in the market for particular credit card products, the card-issuers and/or the card-issuers affiliate partners outside of the US do plenty of the same kind of things that are being done in the US too -- even as the numbers and other factors mean a customization of the business model is part of the picture for those who do make a living out of blogging outside of the US too.

What is true from the bottom-up is true from the top-down too.

so we agree, a combination of different consumer habits and regulatory practices means there are different viable business models in the US and in other countries. Glad we cleared that up.

But if, baby, I'm the bottom you're the top!
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Old Jul 7, 17, 6:19 am   #351
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The viable blogging business models outside of the US are not all that different from the US -- even as consumer habits and regulatory regimes may not be uniform across the world or even within a country.

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GUWonder has over 80k posts here and I still have no clue what he stands for.
Is any woman or man or child required to stand for or against a blogging business model? It doesn't seem to be a very fruitful venture to be so hardline, but I do find there is positive yield to be generated from recognizing the world as it is. Then again, some of the hardline sentiments seem to be quite the supplemental revenue-generating sort of attention-grabbers when it comes to the media space -- blogosphere businesses included -- that thrive on attention.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 7, 17 at 6:28 am
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Old Jul 7, 17, 6:46 am   #352
  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
The viable blogging business models outside of the US are not all that different from the US -- even as consumer habits and regulatory regimes may not be uniform across the world or even within a country.



Is any woman or man or child required to stand for or against a blogging business model? It doesn't seem to be a very fruitful venture to be so hardline, but I do find there is positive yield to be generated from recognizing the world as it is. Then again, some of the hardline sentiments seem to be quite the supplemental revenue-generating sort of attention-grabbers when it comes to the media space -- blogosphere businesses included -- that thrive on attention.
I think the critique is that it's difficult to discern what points you're making given that you pivot any time someone responds to what appears the point you're making. The only consistent position you take is that people are wrong to share their thoughts about blogs if those thoughts aren't complimentary. If you don't actually have thoughts on the topic of the business model, then why are you posting so much in this thread?

Please provide us with evidence of how this discussion has generated revenue for any bloggers.

I look forward to the sale of thepointsguy.co.uk and Brians popping up all over Asia. There will also be a Million Kilometer Secrets in France, and a Frugal Travel Herr in Germany shortly. Lucky will establish a new venture in Argentina, with his cousin Suerte. After all, if the business model would work just the same there, despite the taxation rules, marketing rules, rules about credit cards, and compeletely different customer bases, we should expect close to identical blogs promoting frei/gratis travel for signing up for a credit card, paying the new bloggers 35 Euros per signup.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 7:02 am   #353
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I think the critique is that it's difficult to discern what points you're making given that you pivot any time someone responds to what appears the point you're making. The only consistent position you take is that people are wrong to share their thoughts about blogs if those thoughts aren't complimentary.
The above claim about "the only consistent position" is not built on facts. The claim about my contribution seems built upon something other than objectivity and facts, given I know full well that the last line above is not representative of my position. Facts matter.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 7:53 am   #354
  
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The above claim about "the only consistent position" is not built on facts. The claim about my contribution seems built upon something other than objectivity and facts, given I know full well that the last line above is not representative of my position. Facts matter.
Pivot.

Great. We agree. The Points Guy etc are uniquely American.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 8:50 am   #355
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I think Gary, Ben, et. al. did just fine with their traditional business model of blogging built on advertising and minor affiliate links.

What changed the game in the US was the credit card affiliate bubble, which was a result to 'irrational exuberance' on the part of the banks and affiliate programs in a mostly unregulated market space. And such market spaces do very weird things because they reacts to how people behave, and sometimes people are a little screwy (ie, churning cards and manufactured spending). Ultimately, however, markets self-correct. And banks and their affiliate programs are now once-bitten-twice-shy.

Plenty of bloggers can revert to the traditional blogger business model, but clearly those who only came for the gold (card) rush are going to have to learn that model AND the fact that it requires one to provide some compelling content. All of which seems so hopelessly anachronistic.

I just wonder if one day one of these folks will get desperate in the aftermath of the gold (card) rush and be featured on American Greed.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 11:15 am   #356
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sbm12 has no CC links on wandr.me and other news sites hire him to write for them probably based on the skill he has
Sure, but none of them pay me $30k a day to push content around.

My business model is very different and much less lucrative. I'm (mostly) okay with that.
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Old Jul 8, 17, 12:21 pm   #357
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I just wonder if one day one of these folks will get desperate in the aftermath of the gold (card) rush and be featured on American Greed.
<br /><br />Because it's been way too long since a FlyerTalker (alive or deceased) has been featured? 😉
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Old Jul 8, 17, 2:04 pm   #358
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<br /><br />Because it's been way too long since a FlyerTalker (alive or deceased) has been featured? 😉
I don't think we're allowed to say his name...but...YEAH!
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Old Jul 8, 17, 3:48 pm   #359
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<br /><br />Because it's been way too long since a FlyerTalker (alive or deceased) has been featured? ��
Is that a reference to the "fraud in cyberspace" http://www.cnbc.com/id/100000089 ? I was thinking of him the other day when thinking of the JetSmarter "business model".

Credit card peddling by FT bloggers seems more legitimate than that. It seems even more legitimate than the corporate shenanigans that are embodied by loyalty program devaluations.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 8, 17 at 3:55 pm
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