HikerT

Yes, and it probably has the most relevance to the topic. #1 is a much broader issue than neglecting to highlight a better offer than the blogger's affiliate link. The US airways offer is a great example. It's far from a "recent" debacle. The chairman's offer was ignored by the vast majority of bloggers for almost 2 years. Most of them nutted up over over the US card once the affiliate link came out, and almost all of them sprinkled in subtle excuses to use their lesser affiliate links even when they did mention the better offer, but the fact that most of them didn't even highlight the card before the affiliate links came out is almost as much of a disgrace as pushing the lesser offer.

DavidAL

Here is my premise in a nutshell regarding issues with the majority of bloggers. Most of this is nothing more than human nature, greed. Most bloggers that have come on the scene in the last couple years have quit their day job. Blogging is now "full-time" for them. Therefore, their human instinct is to profit as much as possible. Some of their ideas are to profit short-term, ASAP, some have a longer-term prospective. What I mean by that, it's apparent to me that certain bloggers are only focusing on pushing CC links, to line their pockets now. Others are focused on growing their membership numbers, probably to take the same route FTG took, which is to sell out the blog, a more long term approach. The short term bloggers can't help but see the $ signs the Chase (primarily) has dangled in front of them, and therefore they will do anything to promote those links that pay them triple digits per app, even if it does involve breaking the "code of silence" that once used to exist about certain deals. The long termers are more focused on exposing tricks to new readers, so that said readers think "man, this blogger rocks and I gotta subscribe to him/her!". Then Mr. long term blogger says "I have 745,250 subscribers! Don't you want to buy my blog???"

Does anyone remember airfarewatchdog? They probably grew a lot of readers talking about FD'ing, but they burned a lot of bridges also. I see similar things for many of these blogs. I for one used to communicate regularly with certain bloggers, talking about tricks, ideas, etc. Once I saw certain tricks and deals make it in their blogs, to grow their readerships, I considered them "sell-outs", and stopped all communications with them.

I think that blogging about travel is in a bubble, similar to the housing bubble. Once all the morons that sign up for the affiliate links max out their CC's, start paying interest, and realize they're not smart enough to play this game, there will be no more idiots to use affiliate links, and said bloggers will have burned bridges with loyal FT'ers, therefore the bloggers will have to go back and get a "real" job. After all, why would I want to help a blogger that's sole purpose is to talk about deals to either grow readership, or promote CC links? Both of those motives are selfish motives, and are NOT designed to build community, but rather profit. For what it's worth, I consider any blogger that has promoted the IB/IP card, and specifically told people they didn't have to have a real business to get the card a selfish and greedy blogger. I wish Chase would require a real EIN number, and shut down anyone that doesn't have one.

FTG, you said that most bloggers are also travel hackers at heart. I completely disagree with that. Travel hacking is no longer a hobby for them, but a job. They don't do it for fun, they do it for profit. There's a big difference. So, with the exception of just a couple bloggers that actually have good, ORIGINAL content, and do NOT constantly promote CC links, I will have no contact with bloggers, because they don't have the community or myself's interests at heart, but rather their own pockets.

Also, in regards to the newbies, I have no pity for them. I lurked here for a long time prior to signing up. I read, and read, and read, and read. I didn't ask anyone for anything on a silver platter, but many of our new members expect that, which I think, unfortunately, is a product of today's society. There is a sense of entitlement that people think "if I can't have XYZ, then you shouldn't be able to have it either". We see it constantly in all aspects of our society, including on FT. It all starts with kids get out of college, and expect to have a 2-3K SF house, that costs $250K, because that's what their parents had. Well, their parents worked for 25 years before they got that house, and didn't have that right out of college. But people now "expect" to have a new car, and a new house right away. So they read blogs, and come on here, and see trip reports of people flying in F on QR, or EK, or LH, and expect to be able to do the same in the next 2 months. Nevermind that some people have been playing this "game" for years, and have saved up their miles/points for those redemptions. These newbies, that can't read a thread before posting a dumb question I have no sympathy for. They are leaches and don't add anything to the community, but have the "give me, give me" attitude. So instead, they post that question to said blogger, and the blogger answers whatever stupid question they have, gains the moron's trust, and moron uses their link. But if moron is too stupid to figure out said question on their own, odds are they're too stupid not to overspend and rack up CC debt. So it's only a matter of time before said moron is out of the game, and blogger is too.

So, I really don't see any real way to allow FT members and certain bloggers to "get along" anymore. At this point, our motives are too different from bloggers, and that divide is too big. Take as an example a longtime friend you've had, talked to, entrusted secrets to, etc. You all of a sudden become in the public eye (run for office, rockstar, serial killer, etc). Then your "friend" starts talking to the newspapers, magazines, TV stations about all the things that I entrusted you with, all so that you would profit personally from that. Do you think I'd ever share anything with you again? Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.

I could go on and on, but I was trying to keep this short and to the point.

milesmuncher

I disagree.

I don't believe that the fact that someone talks about credit card sign-up bonuses means that they have to talk about each and every one of them. I also think that pushing something as "the best offer available" when you know it really isn't is much worse.

IMO, the "good" USAir offer is blog-worthy and has been for some time. However, it's not so exciting on the surface (40K + 10K for $89 each subsequent year). The real appeal is the churnability, but that starts to get into dicey territory for many people - which makes it a less-appealing topic to cover.

satz

Wholeheartedly agree. I would also add that once the big bucks start coming in, one notices a change in the nature of some of the blog posts. I think the average reader is an occasional traveler whose goal is to save money for an aspirational trip. Having top elite status with a hotel or airline is a nice perk (who doesn't like upgrades, free changes on award tickets, free wifi and breakfast?) but there is a disconnect with the readership when a blogger discusses how it is worth spending a couple of thousand dollars doing mattress runs and mileage runs to get that elite status. What is the average reader going to do with that status when he/she is making a few trips a year at most?

mnscout

... I'd like to propose a new "Bash-a-Blogger" seminar. We can set up a rental desk at the entrance to the auditorium handing out some sticks and torches for the additional fees. Local merchants will bring eggs and rotten tomatoes to sell at a discount to the attending public. It would be so much fun to so many people on this thread! Afterwards, we could go even further and set up a new seminar on how to yell at TV commercials and hold them responsible for not advertising all the coupons and discounts offered by their competitors. A good time will be had by all--except, of course, the bloggers--but honestly, who cares about that pathetic bunch!

DavidAL

I, for one, have zero interest in going to any seminar that a blogger is talking at, including FTU or the other ones. That's a different form of allowing the bloggers to profit from you. Those kinds of events go on their resume to assist in selling said blog ("I had 7,000 people come to my last seminar!", nevermind said blogger only spoke for 10 minutes). If the "seminar" is more a DO, with zero cost, and only like-minded people getting together to talk about things, then great. If there's a registration fee, then it's not about community, or the event is too big.

HikerT

Really? You lost me here. So how far do we take selfish and greedy? Anyone who has used IB/IP for non-business spend is selfish and greedy? That would probably be 99% of us.

I'd suggest a stronger correlation to "selfish and greedy" is whether a blogger can mention the word Ink in a blog post without throwing in an affiliate link, or the number of times they include in an affiliate link for said cards in a given month.

HikerT

Actually, I would suggest a session at each seminar to educate noobs about bloggers that can't be trusted. Perhaps even a booth to hand out free t-shirts. For example, instead of:

http://milevalue.com/wp-content/uplo...5-764x1024.jpg

It could say "I lie free*"

ddallas

+1
When newbies go to buy their first car they likely realize that the car salesman is going to be operating in his own best interest. Nothing wrong with that. The salesmen is not against the newbies, he's just for himself. When newbies go looking at frequent flyer blogs they may not understand how the blogs are compensated so they are not wary of the advice and don't consider that the blog writer may have monetary motivations that affect the advice they give. It can be argued that people should know by now that they need to be wary of what they read on the internet, but some people are still gullible and don't look at the blogs advice with a critical eye.

ddallas

I think it would be a good idea to make that consumer education part of the beginner session. No need to do it in a bashing way. Simply walk the newbies through how frequent flyer blogs make money so that the newbies will be more aware of the playing field and realize that they need to take personal responsibility to comparison shop the application links with other blogs and flyertalk before they apply for any cards to ensure that they are applying for the offer that will be in their own best interest. That sounds like common sense but I myself didn't have any clue about affiliate links that might influence the information a blogger presents until I read about it on flyertalk.

ma91pmh

Why doesn't each and every lazy-assed complainer on here who makes jabs at bloggers start up their own alternative and show how it should be done?

No takers? ... No? I don't see the new blogs setup by those folks who say it's so easy to do. Lots of "talk". No action.

And those who don't like the FTU/Seminars. Suggesting to start a bash-a-blogger do. DO IT. Don't just sit here and whine and moan that your life is oh so terrible now because of bloggers, and ooh they are all so bad because they steal money from newbies (which BTW the VERY SAME people absolutely slaughter with "GO SEARCH THAT" responses when they come to FT). Get off those lazy complaining butts and go and actually do some of the mumbo jumbo you are suggesting.

FT has become home of the whining Monday morning quater-backs.

the hotel bar

While I guess it's a good thing that FTG is pretty much admitting he operates his blog like a used card salesman, that then makes the mission statement untrue:

That's not the mission. The mission is to get as many people to click on as many links as possible, and provide whatever information leads to that point (and omit what might not). Any seeing the world at affordable prices might or might not be a byproduct of the actual mission

On another note, anyone else find it zero coincidence at all that the correlation between bloggers who intentionally give bad advice, and bloggers who censor comments is very high?

I'm not buying the whole "I wanted to come to FT to have a discussion about it". If one was remotely interested in having the discussion, his own blog would be a nice place to start. But comments similar to these would get censored on their blogs. He can't do that on TBB, and has less ability to do it on FT.... so that's not an option on other forums

mnscout

Well, I'm sorry, but I just have to ask this. What's stopping you?

Why not start your own seminars, where blogger-bashers could get together and have some fun? I mean what can be easier--find the venue, book it in advance (don't know if one has to pay a deposit but I'm almost certain they do); then organize the events, coordinate everything, market and advertise, and most importantly don't forget to cross your fingers every day that your efforts will bring in enough people to cover the costs and leave you with something extra. I mean, seriously, it is so easy, right? Just like running a blog.

mnscout

I just saw you beat me to it. "Go search that" is another ugly side of many FTers--the entit... sorry enlightened ones. The ones who believe that those "secrets" do not belong to unwashed masses.

ingy

1. I don't own the blog and don't need the money.

2. I would gladly put up my 11 plus years of membership and contributions to this, community against your short term newbie status.

3. as your attitude does not appear in the spirit of the civil discussion of the topic at hand, i personally will disregard your thoughts about my intentions to participate in this discussion.

now back to the discussion, as a result of the civil discussion of issues last night with three or four readers in private pms, i suggested to the blog owners that the affiliate links for the us airways card be removed or a better explanation of the differences in the two offers be more clearly distinguished. my guess is, the affiliate links will be removed and I will report when the decision is made.

it seems a perfect time, in light of the previous posters comments and attitude, to suggest again that more will be accomplished by a serious discussion of the issues than bashing bloggers.