David-A

You need to remember that the Schengen area comprises the territory of a collection of different countries, and they remain different countries.

The Schengen agreement (in this context) is about the removal of border controls within the area. The removal of such controls does not mean that everyone who is currently located in one country has the right to visit or roam in all the others, just that (under normal circumstances) the controls have been removed.

All countries continue to retain the right to issue their own visa's, for varying periods, under their own discretion. The 90 day Schengen visa or non-visa visit entitlement is something new on top of previous offerings, albeit generally the standard offering for trips up to 90 days.

The creation of the 90 day Schengen area-wide entitlement defined it to the person, and you remain 1 single person, the travel documents you enter and leave on are utterly irrelevant to who you are and your being a single person.

If you wish to stay longer than 90 days you will need to apply to the country you wish to stay in for above the 90 days for a national visa, and if you still want to change country you will need to apply to the other countries you wish to also be in beyond the 90 days.

People with a national visa for a Schengen country do no enjoy schegen area-wide movement entitlement, despite the lack of controls. As a result, above the 90 days, it's just like Schengen doesn't exist.

Siberian_Viktorya

I found this thread and you post seemed to make the most sense.

However, I'm one of those people with dual citizenships in two different countries. Country 1 is my birth country. Country 2 is where I became a citizen via naturalization. These two countries are not in Europe. Both countries allow dual citizenships, so I continue to hold passports for both.

My passport from Country 1 bears my original birth name. When I became a citizen of Country 2(USA), my legal first and last names were changed during the naturalization ceremony conducted by a federal judge. My new first name is Martha(because I'm a chef and people have been calling me since I arrived in the US, mostly due to the fact that I cook like Martha Stewart) My new last name is my husband's last name. We married two weeks before I became naturalized US citizen.

Passport 1: Viktorya Mi*****ang, place of birth shows only name of actual city of birth

Passport 2(USA): Martha Pf****ing, place of birth shows name of country

Obviously the date of birth is the same.

Does that make me two different people?

fassy

Wow.... reviving a very old thread.

Anyway, of course you are just one person. And probably, legally would be only entitled to just one visa. Issue is: How would they find out? Of course there is some paper trail somewhere and if they really dig into it they might find it.

Not sure how far back they will go to find out finer details from the issuing entity. Probably based on an initial risk assessment.

Ghentleman

Interesting case, maybe a fingerprint scan can pick up that these two different passports belong to the same person? Otherwise I don't see how the authorities can find out. But still illegal.

GUWonder

US-passport-using visitors to the Schengen zone are generally not asked to provide fingerprints at Schengen ports of entry; one exception to that is if such person is perhaps using a short-duration Schengen visa or national visa of a Schengen state. And even then, such US passport users have high likelihood of being admitted in without a fingerprint scan at the port of entry in the Schengen zone.

Even with fingerprint scanner use, fingerprint scanners can be gamed to drive false-negatives when it comes to matching attempts.

That said, even without fingerprint scanning, there is some facial recognition technology in use at some airports which have caught people that are wanted but using passports in different names. But the odds of a person getting caught that way when using a US passport at a Schengen port of entry is extremely low unless already hit with a lookout alert of some sort.

Way more likely than not, there would be an unlawful overstay for visitors if just rotating use of different non-EU/non-EEA passports to exceed the stay limits applicable to the individual. The visitor stay limits are applicable to the individual, even when the individual lawfully has one legal name in one country's passport while having a different legal name in another country's passport.

Siberian_Viktorya

Where in the Schengen Agreement does it specify that a person cannot use passports from 2 non-EU countries to enter Schengen area?(for the purpose discussed in this thread) Just curious because I couldn't find anything about this.

I will probably never have a reason for trying something like that. Spending more than 90 days in Europe feels like torture to me because I'm not young anymore.

GUWonder

The issue has come up before when people applied for and utilized Schengen visas utilizing foreign passports from some non-EU/EEA countries and then sought other status at Schengen POEs or inside the Schengen zone using foreign passports from other countries not used previously at the Schengen POEs.

The admissibility terms are applicable to individuals not to passports. While there are ways, lawful and otherwise, to try to exceed 90 day stay limits without being caught for unlawful overstaying, the admissibility terms are applicable to individuals not to passports. Passports are not seeking admission into a country; individuals are seeking admission into a country. The passport being admitted is incidental to the individual being admitted.

Siberian_Viktorya

The US CBP capture/save faces and fingerprints of ALL foreign visitors seeking entry into the US(excluding those with diplomatic status, special status, or work for government of Taiwan) If Schengen POEs do the same thing, then anyone using passports from 2 or more countries can be easily detected.

I never overstayed in the Schengen zone. The longest I've ever spent was a month and half. However, I do recall not having my passport checked when exiting Schengen zone by rail a couple of years ago. I was only in there for 2 weeks, but how would they know that I actually exited?

fassy

That's the thing. They don't. They also do not regularly save or match fingerprints as there isn't as far as I know even a centralized database besides at Interpol which in the normal case wouldn't be bothered for immigration issues. I guess it is probably easily doable to overstay your time in Schengen area if you have multiple passports. To be honest, looking at some of the borders to the Schengen area it is even quite easy to enter the Schengen area without even having to show your passport...

They wouldn't. If you do not get a departure stamp it is your problem. In the worst case they will assume you stayed for the time between the entry stamp and the date they checked you passport. Then you might want to show them proof you actually left the Schengen area like a boarding pass for a flight leaving Schengen area, credit card receipts etc.

To be honest I also do not have a single departure stamp from the US as well... of all my ESTA approved entries of the last years. I have no idea if they would have any option to find out I actually left the country in time. Probably not without really looking hard for me.

mecabq

With all the discussion about whether border agents scan (or even really look at) passports, does it matter? Don't the countries know that you entered anyway, e.g., via transmission of airline-provided PNR information? (Maybe if one entered the Schengen zone by rail it would be different?)

For example, entering the U.S., the Global Entry kiosk is pre-populated with one's itinerary (flight number and foreign origin point) when one scans one's passport. Presumably the European point of entry would have the same information.

So it doesn't seem that failure to have one's passport scanned on entry would necessarily mean that one could get away with overstaying.

GUWonder

For air arrivals into the Schengen zone, the data is still very fragmentary. Not all Schengen countries have a legal massive PNR spying/surveillance capability; and some that even do engage in, or believe that they benefit from, this kind of unlawful surveillance of airline passengers aren't legally allowed to use it as part of a domestic law enforcement operation. Where such mass surveillance capability is lawfully allowed to be run against passengers -- as it is in various parts of the EU -- the PNR data is not routinely used for general immigration control purposes.

In some parts of the EU, investigations/dragnets based on airline passenger manifests is still a paper-intensive process. And then if there are LEO clowns using OCR to create and run records electronically, it has be all the more ridiculous for a while.

There is no legal Schengen-wide PNR surveillance system. Some people want that to change and have been playing all sorts of games to try to do that or otherwise achieve much the same end.

ft556

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dutchgirlDH

Of course there is now a central Schengen database which registers all visa applicants and their biometric data. The EU is working towards a system in which biometric data will be requested from anyone entering at any bordercrossing into the Schengen area, but this is still a few years off.

As for staying longer than 90 days - a number of Schengen countries has treaties with a number of other states, mainly US, Canada, OZ and NZ, that predate Schengen. Based on those treaties it is possible for people holding those passports to stay longer in the Schengen area, but still no more than 90 days per 180 in any single Schengen country IIRC.

Menko

This is precisely why I personally feel it is NOT a good idea to permit multiple citizenships and/or passports nowadays!
The loyalty to one's country also comes into question???
BTW - I am a legally naturalized US citizen, and I carry and use only "ONE" passport - always!!!
Menko

GUWonder

VIS is for short-duration visas IIRC. And VIS doesn't have fingerprints from even all persons who have (even very recently) been issued short-duration Schengen visas.