Bakpapier

I wasnt sure in what forum this would fit but it's about 'other' european countries so I guess it fits here.

So one of my friends recently announced she was going to move to Vienna, and that made me wonder: why not move to Bratislava and commute to Vienna every day? The two cities are only 60 km apart, and the rent and living costs in Bratislava are much lower than in Vienna. Both countries use the euro, are EU and Schengen, etc. I myself come from the Dutch/Belgian border region and many people lived in Belgium and worked in Holland and vice versa. Such cross border commuting occurs also elsewhere in europe, such as in Geneva. And that's not even EU !

The only problem would be the language barrier I think (which was not a problem in my case), as one would have to learn both German and Slovak (or, if you already speak one of the two, the other one). However the amount of Slovak necessary if you are only going to live there and work elsewhere is low I would think.

The odd thing is that using google I could not find a lot of information about this.

A quick calculation (first bratislava then vienna):

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...a&city2=Vienna

Average Monthly Disposable Salary (Net After Tax) 904.44 € vs 1,832.76 €
3 bedroom apartment in city centre: 941.67 € vs 1,593.88 €
Gasoline (1 liter) 1.21 € vs 1.07 € (to my surprise, gasoline is CHEAPER in austria, however you could buy it in austria anyway if you commute by car)

So let's say you are a married couple who both earn the average net income (that makes 3600 euros net income per month). By living in Bratislava you would save 600 euros per month on rent alone. And most other living costs are also much lower in Bratislava. The daily commute would be about 15 euros a day (liberal estimation, probably lower), calculate that for 20 working days, that would be 300 euros. But even if you lived in Vienna itself chances are that you would have to commute anyway unless you were able to find a home right close by your work.

So why doesn't the entire viennese population move across the border?

deniah

1600 EUR is on the high-end of rent for Vienna. Not everyone lives in city centre.
(Then again, it's probably so for BTS)

Also keep in mind that 2/3rd of Viennese live in social/subsidized housing. (No, not a typo).

But going with your assumption of 600 saved on rent, net 300 once transport is taken into consideration.... is a saving of 10EUR a day worth a 2hr+ commute, on top of being bound by train schedule. would you value your time at less than 5EUR/hr?

Bakpapier

300 for commuting was based on a gasoline price of 1,45 euros/liter (it is actually much lower in Austria, and to my surprize even lower in austria than in slovakia!) and on not having any company travel refund at all nor any leased car which includes a certain amount of free kilometers per year. All these things are common at least in the Netherlands. They are not in Germany, and I don't know about austria. But they would make your commute much cheaper.

Although I know there is a train, it doesn't seem to run very frequently so I think it would be the most comfortable to commute by car if you would live in BTS and work in Vienna.

If 2/3rd of your population lives in social and subsidized housing (which is an extraordinary amount !), then how long must the waiting lists be to get such a cheap house? Because in my city in the Netherlands, you have to wait at least 10 years to get a very very small chance to get a subsidized/social house, and you also need to earn quite a low wage to be eligible. In Amsterdam it's virtually impossible to get a social/subsidized hosue nowadays, you would have to wait an entire lifetime.


As for a daily 2h commute, it's one hour each way. That's at least in the Netherlands not a long commute at all. And if you compare it to the US it's almost nothing ( a normal US commute is more like 2 hours each way at least). Although many people prefer to live in the center, there are also many people who decide to live one hour away for work for a variety of reasons (cheaper/bigger/greener housing, quiet for the kids, etc.).

Palal

Quality of life is better in Vienna?
Value of time - 2 hours per day (and it's more than 2 hours door-to-door) is not insignificant.

Bakpapier

Of course time is valuable. But yet there are many people who have an hour single trip commute or even more every single day. And that is for benefits much less than those stated here.

I do not know about quality of life. But surely if you have an Austrian wage while living in cheap Bratislava, you can create your own quality of life? You could buy up to 50% more than a resident of Bratislava on a Slovak wage.

I completely agree with you all that time is money, but money can also buy you time. If you have half the living costs in Bratislava you might even be able to work only a 32 hour week instead of a 40 hour week, for example.

ajGoes

Practically nobody in the US commutes two hours each way. The average commute time recently increased to 26 minutes each way, 52 minutes total. Average daily commute time in the Netherlands is 91 minutes.

Bakpapier

that's odd, I was always under the impression that many americans commute 2 hours or more each way without issue simply because the country is so big and everything is built around the Car rather than public transport, which means cities and suburbs are very spread-out. I suppose that the number is lowered by the many rural people who maybe work in their own villages?

In any case, although a one hour commute each way may not be 'average', it's certainly not unthinkable and I know many people who have a 1 hour commute or more one-way, every single day. In fact I have had that for extended periods of time. Sometimes even longer.

ajGoes

This interactive map shows average commute times according to the US Census Bureau. As you'll see, few areas have times over 35 minutes. They are mostly distant exurbs of expensive big cities, where people have to drive or ride transit for long distances to get to & from work.

I just looked up the reported time for my home. At 22.3 minutes, it's just a hair less than the 25 minutes it takes me to drive to the office. Lucky me, I only go in once a week or so!

You're right that some unhappy Americans do commute more than an hour each way. I had a friend who drove an hour and ten minutes from our little town to his office in Columbus, Ohio. No thanks!

AlicorporateUK

I commute by plane on a weekly basis (Monday-Thursday or, often, even Tuesday-Thursday, 4 flights a week as I normally fly via CPH/MUC/FRA) and find it quite tiring, I'd definitely not do 2+ hours daily commute, unless I had the chance to work from home twice a week.

G

Bakpapier

Flying so often is of course much more tiring than a train or car commute of 2 hours a day round trip. Even if the flight itself is very short, you have to go to the airport, go through security, wait at the gate, the flight itself, then go from your destination airport to where you need to go, etc. And during all tha time you are in a busy environment with lots of people and lots of announcements.

Especially the security is what I find tiring and annoying about flying. I always find it a kind of stressful experience no matter how often you do it.

So no I don't think that that's very comparable to someone who gets in his car, drives 1 hour, works, then drives back 1 hour and is at home.

The train is even less stressful as you can relax during the train ride (provided it's a direct ride more or less). I did not mind getting up very early, despite not being a morning person, if I had a very long train ride ahead of me, because I can relax and slowly wake up in the train.

bitterproffit

I assume that some Viennese have children and would prefer to have them go to school in Austria. Maybe learn their lessons in their native language, etc. I live in a city and work in a suburb. I like life in my big fun city. Having been to both, I think I would love living in Vienna more. I would be the guy working in Slovakia and living in Vienna.

Fanjet

There are actually two sets of trains from Bratislava to Vienna each hour. One leaves from the main railway station. The other from a train station on the western side (of the Danube) of Bratislava. The first takes around 60 minutes, the other around 50 minutes to get to Vienna. And there is a Wien-Bratislava ticket which sells for around 30-35 Euros for a weekly pass. And I think a 30-day pass is under 100 Euros.

deniah

The income restriction only applies during application phase. If ones income improves, they are not required to move out. Also I think it's possible to transfer the lease between family members, so many current residents end up inheriting 'grandfathered' contracts.

So while it's difficult-to-impossible to get into one now, many -- including those who don't qualify/need it -- are already living in one.

In the US the only extraordinary commute I'm aware of is the phenomenon as a product of the first tech boom.
When housing prices (and salaries) exploded in Silicon Valley, many moved to places like Antioch in the East Bay while keeping their high paying jobs in San Jose / Santa Clara. That's a 1hr+ 1-way commute and it was fashionable to write news articles and stories about those in 2hr commute or more.

Other than that, most of the US has reasonable 30m commutes.

WorldLux

Add to that that most US cities can accommodate lots of people commuting by car. Compared to the RoW, the US still have the infrastructure to accommodate individual traffic.

Bakpapier

If you'd be the guy working in slovakia and living in vienna you would have to survive on quite a low income though.