Can I fly within the EU without a passport?
Jan 9, 2015, 4:58 am
#61
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People are routinely arrested for crossing, or attempting to cross, between Schengen countries without an ID, but even though you are required by law to have your passport/national ID card with you at all times in all or nearly all Schengen countries, if you keep it in the hotel safe the worse that happens is they bring you to your hotel (and in some countries fine you up to 50Euros or local equivalent).
Jan 9, 2015, 5:06 am
#62
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You are making it sound like it could and does happen to anyone, getting arrested for crossing between Schengen countries without an ID. That is simply not true. I don't care about the little arguments about the legal interpretations, but I wouldn't want anyone reading this to think they would get arrested for innocently crossing a Schengen border without their non-EU passport. That simply will not happen unless lightening strikes you.
But you are correct that an innocent mistake, for example biking near the Dutch/Belgium or Swiss/German border would not lead to an arrest. I am referring to getting caught on a bus, train or car deliberately attempting to cross the border, for example between France and Spain or Austria and Hungary, with no ID.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:08 am
#63
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* except within the Nordic Passport Union and possibly only for DL's issued in said union.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:19 am
#64
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Option A is not an option in Spain
Yes, the law changed in 2013. If the police ask for your ID on the streets of Madrid, a drivers license is not to be considered a valid form of ID.
Not sure about the law in Hungary so your situation could either be that their law accepts DL or the officers decided to just accept it. I believe the Czech Republic changed their law about the same time as Spain, but not 100% certain about that.
Yes, the law changed in 2013. If the police ask for your ID on the streets of Madrid, a drivers license is not to be considered a valid form of ID.
Not sure about the law in Hungary so your situation could either be that their law accepts DL or the officers decided to just accept it
. I believe the Czech Republic changed their law about the same time as Spain, but not 100% certain about that.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:40 am
#65
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Finally you asked a realistic question (although before that was more giberish). to answer your question:
It depends on the circumstances. It could range anything from a short discussion (for example if you can provide your address, ID number etc. and the police feel that you are a border resident), to accompanying you home in their police car to get your ID, to a fine, to an arrest. It all depends on the precise circumstances, the countries involved, the attitude that day of the officer(s) and the individual being asked for their ID.
It depends on the circumstances. It could range anything from a short discussion (for example if you can provide your address, ID number etc. and the police feel that you are a border resident), to accompanying you home in their police car to get your ID, to a fine, to an arrest. It all depends on the precise circumstances, the countries involved, the attitude that day of the officer(s) and the individual being asked for their ID.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:49 am
#66
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Is that a fact? I know that driving licenses are not valid travel documents* but I'm under the impression that they are accepted as ID. The police in BUD accepted my DL when trying to fine me
* except within the Nordic Passport Union and possibly only for DL's issued in said union.
* except within the Nordic Passport Union and possibly only for DL's issued in said union.
Jan 9, 2015, 5:52 am
#67
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Jan 9, 2015, 5:52 am
#68
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NPU citizens' possessed ID need not be issued by an NPU country for the NPU citizen to exercise treaty rights to cross intra-NPU international borders. The authorities of these countries can rely upon references to the national population registers to determine factors relevant to legal presence/admissibilty criteria for NPU countries' persons.
Jan 9, 2015, 6:22 am
#69
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The legal rights to movement (or even expedited naturalization) of NPU persons amongst the NPU countries are such that they are also applicable upon a queried reference to population registers coming back as showing the person to be a citizen of the claimed NPU country -- whether or not a recognized-state ID/passport is issued by an NPU country or even used. In practice this can lead to (or involve) some sort of bizarre circumstances/outcomes. Example involving dual US-Swedish citizens: a US passport is sometimes not acceptable as ID unless finding another person or two (even random local strangers) to attest to confirming that the person in front of the authority is the same as the person pictured in the US passport; then the US passport info may be used in connection with the population register reference for the person to exercise rights within the NPU.
Jan 9, 2015, 6:35 am
#71
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Can anyone here provide even one example of a Schengen country's legal citizen or legal resident being convicted in court for merely attempting to cross an intra-Schengen border without ID that didn't involve some kind of criminal conspiracy or prior criminal record?
Jan 9, 2015, 6:36 am
#72
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i deliberate cross FR-ES, and especially AT-HU all the time, by plane, trains, and cars, and not once have i been stopped, checked, or asked for any sort of ID.
Jan 9, 2015, 6:45 am
#73
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Jan 9, 2015, 6:47 am
#74
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As usual, IANAL.
Jan 9, 2015, 7:54 am
#75
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I have no idea what the law is between the NPU countries but if Joe Sixpack tried that between France and Spain, that would be illegal. Whether he would get stopped and what exactly would happen is a very different discussion, however, from what the actual law is.