GreenEnvy

Hi everyone, long time reader but first time poster.

My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe for our 10yr anniversary.
We're booking everything ourselves, and I thought I'd run the outline by everyone here to see if I am missing anything important.

Plan is to fly out of Toronto on April 30, arrive at London Gatwick in the morning of May 1st (Air Transat). We're not planning on staying in London, just have about 12 hours of layover. We'd spend the day in london, doing one of the hop on/off bus tours, then head to London southend, and fly to Edinburgh (Easyjet).

We'd pickup a rental at the airport, spend the nights of May 1,2,3 in Edinburgh, checking out museums, castles, countryside, etc.

On evening of May 4 we'd fly from Edinburgh to Dublin (Ryanair), pickup a rental, and spend the nights of the 4,5, and 6 in Dublin.

On evening of May 7 we fly from Dublin to Paris (Beauvais, Ryanair), take a shuttle and then train into the Paris Gard North station, subway to our hotel.
Spend the nights of 7,8,9,10 in Paris, then morning of May 11 fly home to Toronto (Air Transat).

From my understanding, being Canadian we don't need Visa's for any of this, both our passports expire in 2015 so have more than 6 months on them. Anything to be aware of with Ryanair or Easyet? Looks like Ryanair charges a bit lot more per checked bag than Easyjet. Easyjet looks like 20 BGP, Ryanair 25.

What would our options be for storing our luggage somewhere the day we spend in London? We'd prefer not to drag around 2 big suitcases with us all day.

Rental cars in Dublin seem very cheap. Expedia is quoting me $80 CAD total for 3 days. In Edinburgh its about $110 for the same. Driving on the left side of the road with a right hand drive car (manual too) will be interesting.

In Paris we'd be getting a metro-pass so we can take trains/subways freely. We plan on visiting Louvre, Eiffel tower, Arc de Triumph, Notre Dame, a Sienne riverboat tour and Versailles. For the Louvre and Eiffel tower we'll pre-buy our tickets online, which as I understand it will allow us to skip the big lines?

My work's insurance will cover us for any medical emergencies regarding ourselves on our trip, but what are your thoughts on extra coverage for trip cancellation, having to return home suddenly (leaving kids home with grandparents), or that sort of thing.

I've budgeted about $110 CAD/day for meals (25 breakfast, 35 lunch, 50 dinner) for the 2 of us. So per person, about 8.50 Euro for breakfast, 12.5 euro for lunch, and 17 Euro for dinner. Does that sound about right? We'll probably blow that budget for a fancy meal a couple times, but for the most part be eating modestly (not Mcdonalds, but say like a pasta for dinner, sandwich for lunch, etc). From the menu's I've found online this seems to be about right but I may be missing something.

Thanks for any input you can provide!

Ocn Vw 1K

GreenEnvy, welcome to FlyerTalk! As your questions are about different aspects of your planned European trip, I'll move this to the forum on travel in Europe. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

injera

You're going to be dead tired after you land in London. Since London doesnt appear to be much of a priority for you either take an earlier flight or jump on a train. Get to Scotland earlier and take a nap.

GreenEnvy

We may do that, we wouldn't buy the tour bus ticket ahead of time, so we'll see how tired we are when we arrive and just skip it if needed.

Thanks for input about a car in Dublin, we'll check into how much of what we want to see it outisde the main city.

David-A

What is the cost difference that is making you pick Southend over another flight from Gatwick?

There is left luggage gatwick, also at london train stations.
Have you factored in the easyjet bag fees?
Have you looked at flight costs from Gatwick?


Have you looked into any airtransat flights to Glasgow? Just a short train ride through from Edinburgh?

You don't need or want a car in Edinburgh, it will be more of a hinderance for anything other than countryside.
You could easily fill two days in Edinburgh on foot, easily.

You do know about ryanair? Very small onboard allowance, fees for everything. They can be cheap, but you must make sure you are not even a nanometer beyond any rule.

Again, do you need a car?


Easyjet are not nasty. Ryanair are nasty.
In both case, rules are rules. weight limits for cary on. Print your boarding pass in advance, etc.

See above.


On a busy day this will ensure you can actually get to the top level. Capacity.

Only you know your own circumstances - what risks exist, how you would need or want to respond to them.
If curtailment (due to family member problem, etc) is a risk, then look at the last minute ticket prices, and see if want to insure against that.

Generally people in Europe would have travel insurance for trips abroad. It is the norm. To cover curtailment, loss of items, disruption, etc. At the same time, a European generally won't have private health insurance to pay at home. So, I've no idea what the costs or market in canada for genreal travel insurance is like.

Depends where you plan to eat, how much. Lunch is a sit down meal, or is it a sandwich meal deal to eat sitting out from M&S, boots, supermarket, etc.


------

General comments....

I assume the airtransat flights are radically cheaper than other options? (I know they can be).
If so, working with airtransat flights, it does some a heck of a way to get to edinburgh. You will be so tired when you arrive.

Have you looked at Toronto > Dublin, etc.

I'm not trying to talk you out of fitting in a london sight seeing whistle stop tour. I think many people do enjoy that. But, whew...

GreenEnvy

Airtransat does appear cheaper than others, and they include 1 checked bag upto 23kg as well which saves more. We have set dates we want to leave Toronto and return (Apr 30, May 11) so it is restricting up a bit. If we were willing to come back on the 10th we'd save $125 each on the airtransat flights, but don't wanna cut ourselves short.

We'll review your thoughts, thanks!

Aviatrix

You get the same baggage allowance on long-haul flights with Air Canada.

StrophariaCube

Hi,
your budget for food will not work in Paris. Even smaller snacks are ridiculously expensive, so better calculate with more and try to find good French cuisine.

stut

€17 for dinner in Paris will be pushing it, but is doable (but don't count on ordering wine with your meal). Look away from the centre, look for 'prix fixe' menus, and consider eating your main meal at lunchtime with a less formal meal in the evening.

If you want to stick to this budget, you could consider going for an apartment (through something like airbnb.com) instead of a hotel. These are often better value (freeing up some of your budget) but also give you the flexibility to, say, eat out at lunchtime, visit a local market, and cook yourself up something simple in the evening (or have a takeaway from a traiteur).

From London to Edinburgh, you could also take the train. It's a 4h30 journey, the latter half of which is very scenic, and you're going right from city centre to city centre. Given the time to get to Southend Airport (an admittedly easy train journey from London Liverpol Street), check-in time, luggage collection and bus (maybe even tram by then!) to central Edinburgh, it's not far off being the same time end-to-end, and a lot more relaxing. Rail fares are from eastcoast.co.uk and are structured like air fares, but do not open up until the Friday 11-12 weeks before travel. First class includes food and is a very civilised way to travel!

As far as Ryanair goes - people hate it or are indifferent to it. Personally, I don't mind them, but do find that buying a pre-assigned seat (preferably the front row) makes the whole experience pretty civilised. But what is said upthread is absolutely right - you must be aware of the rules and regulations and follow them to the letter. You must check in online before travel. You must pre-book luggage, and make sure you are completely within the limits (which include weight as well as size). You must ensure your hand luggage is within the restrictive size limits - and, at most airports, you must be able to fit any food/drink/reading purchases inside the bag before boarding - you are not even allowed a shopping bag. For international flights as a non-EU/EEA citizen, you need to present yourself at the visa check counter before going through security (UK-RoI is a special case, as it's treated as a domestic flight, but it's worth checking).

If you can keep within all this, it's not a bad experience. A pre-purchased seat gets you priority boarding (well worth it, as people tend to queue as soon as the gate is announced) and many crews keep back locker space for the front rows.

Do, however, look at alternatives such as Aer Lingus.

ToGo

Dont take Ryanair the are the worst Airline in Europe!
You have to pay for everything Lavatory, Checkin, Seat, Luggage , Food,...
In the most case you pay more than an normal Airline!!!!

GreenEnvy

Thanks again all for the input.

We are going to be using Ryanair but we'll be careful with our weights and the like. All the flights are little 1 hour flights so washrooms shouldn't be an issue.

Updated plan:
April 30, Fly from Toronto
May 1, Land at Gatwick 7:30am, take First Capital Connect train to St Pancras/Kings Cross. Hoping to be there by around 10am. Leave luggage at Kings Cross, get on Big Bus tours hop on/off bus, ride around for a couple hours, come back to Kings Cross. Get on train to Edinburgh at 3pm.
Arrive in Edinburgh around 7:30pm, relax.
Spend all day 2nd, 3rd, 4th, in Edinburgh.
On 5th fly Ryanair to Dublin, leaving 8:05am, arrive 9:10am. Spend all day 5th, 6th, 7th in Dublin.
On 8th at 6:15am fly out of Dublin, arrive in Paris Beauvais 8:55am. Take shuttle to RER line station, take RER into central paris and onto hotel. Should be at hotel around noon.
Spend rest of 8th, and 9th, 10th in Paris.
Morning of 11th take RER to CDG, fly home.

stut

Sorry, but that's simply untrue.

You don't pay for the lavatory, that was based on a publicity stunt press release.

You don't pay for check-in if you do it online.

You don't pay for a seat if you don't want a pre-resereved premium one.

You don't pay for luggage if you're not taking any with you (I generally don't).

You do pay for food. Par for the course. TBH, I always turn down those awful wraps you get on BA flights anyway, and they never have an alternative.

As for the fare, well... You need to compare like for like, of course, and if there's a full-service airline that's competitive, great (I've managed to fly on BA business to Barcelona for less than Ryanair wanted - but then I've also managed to fly from Malmo to Stansted for £10 all-in - no extra fees encountered).

Ryanair have plenty faults - their treatment of staff is questionable, as are some of their procedures. Their sales approach has certainly been tacky, although that's improving slightly (take something to listen to to get away from the bombardment of sales pitches onboard). And you don't want to be stuck with them when things go wrong.

But you can get a genuine bargain, can avoid most of the extras by adhering to the rules, and they have an on-time record that most airlines can only wish for.

ToGo

Ant the take some Airports who in the middle of nowhere....

stut

GreenEnvy, the 15:00 to Edinburgh on the 1st May is currently open for booking at www.eastcoast.co.uk - £50 in standard class and £97.50 in first. I'd urge you to book as soon as possible, as this is a holiday weekend.

stut

Yes, they do use secondary airports at some major cities (although some of them are arguably easier to reach, e.g. GSE, SXF).

However, when I wanted to go from Bedfordshire to Avignon a few months ago, Luton-Nimes saved me several hours and pounds vs Heathrow-Marseille. And having the front row to myself was a bonus too (particularly as you get priority boarding and reserved locker space thrown in...)

I wouldn't use them if I was going from London to Milan, for example. But if I were going from Cambridge to the Italian Lakes - certainly!