Maestro's Europe Trip - Newbie here.. Please be Patient
Mar 18, 2012, 12:50 am
#286
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
And I have seen hundreds of people who have had items or entire strollers taken (both Disney and their own). Read the internet and you'll see the same.
We have been to Disney parks countless times with children your age and younger and didn't leave things in the stroller. But then again, we don't tend to be pack mules in the parks either, unlike many of the people who go to WDW. It's the same as if one travelled with adults; one bag, and it comes on the ride, just as an adult takes a bag with them on the ride.
In the end, it really is no skin off my nose if you do leave something in the stroller. But you said earlier that people who visit Disney parks are respectful of others belongings. That simply isn't always true; visiting to a Disney park doesn't make someone nicer or kinder or more decent than those who do not visit Disney parks.
Again, people are just trying to help you to have the best possible holiday, and if you want to take the risk of having items go missing, so be it. Just realise that it IS a risk, and a somewhat siginficant one.
Edited to add:
I realise that you may be comparing this trip to your last trips to WDW. Remember, this isn't WDW. You may be surprised to find that a visit to the non-US parks is still much more a pleasant 'day in the parks' that it was once long ago in America, before the insanity of the last few years. There is no need for instance at DLP to book a meal 6 months in advance. The parks are less crowded with strollers, and one can more about more easily between parks.
Your children won't be babies anymore like on previous visits, they won't be in diapers anymore, and you'll have a lot more flexibility. One reason however why I suggest looking at onsite hotels is that you have the ability to go back to the room in minutes during the day, and this can be a significant 'value' when travelling with small children.
We have been to Disney parks countless times with children your age and younger and didn't leave things in the stroller. But then again, we don't tend to be pack mules in the parks either, unlike many of the people who go to WDW. It's the same as if one travelled with adults; one bag, and it comes on the ride, just as an adult takes a bag with them on the ride.
In the end, it really is no skin off my nose if you do leave something in the stroller. But you said earlier that people who visit Disney parks are respectful of others belongings. That simply isn't always true; visiting to a Disney park doesn't make someone nicer or kinder or more decent than those who do not visit Disney parks.
Again, people are just trying to help you to have the best possible holiday, and if you want to take the risk of having items go missing, so be it. Just realise that it IS a risk, and a somewhat siginficant one.
Edited to add:
I realise that you may be comparing this trip to your last trips to WDW. Remember, this isn't WDW. You may be surprised to find that a visit to the non-US parks is still much more a pleasant 'day in the parks' that it was once long ago in America, before the insanity of the last few years. There is no need for instance at DLP to book a meal 6 months in advance. The parks are less crowded with strollers, and one can more about more easily between parks.
Your children won't be babies anymore like on previous visits, they won't be in diapers anymore, and you'll have a lot more flexibility. One reason however why I suggest looking at onsite hotels is that you have the ability to go back to the room in minutes during the day, and this can be a significant 'value' when travelling with small children.
Last edited by exbayern; Mar 18, 2012 at 1:41 am
Mar 19, 2012, 10:42 am
#287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
I was directed here from another thread. It seems there has been a lot of tooing and froing going on.
Am I right in thinking your current plan is
Calgary - NY, spend 5-6 days here
NY to London via Frankfurt
possibly spend some time in London, possibly go straight to DLP?
5 days at DLP
Some time in Paris possibly?
Perhaps some time in Italy?
Back to London for Olympics, and other UK stuff
Home via Toronto for 5 nights?
May I suggest a couple of ideas:
1. Look at a UK travel agency for a package for Disneyland - usually Eurostar and Disney hotel, they can be considerably cheaper than booking independantly, or booking through a North American one. I have friends who pop over for weekends with their children always on some sort of offer.
2. Consider one of the disney hotels - not only because they are close to the parks, but because of the other perks they offer - you seem to like characters, you will find those in the disney hotels, you can do the disney dining packages with the character meals if you stay there, which you seem to wish to do anyway, some of the disney hotels have pools etc. which in themselves give the kids something fun to do. Reviews I have read of e.g. the Dinseyland Hotel say that you see all the characters around at breakfast and supper in the hotel restaurants - it sounds exactly like what you want from the experience, without then having to spend time travelling back to a hotel with tired children after the supper (or getting them out of bed to get there in time for a breakfast). I'm also thinking of economy of time. From what most people I know have said, 2 days is more than enough to do everything, so let's increase that by 50% in case you want to do some things twice. Have you considered doing onsite for 3 nights, rather than 5 nights - and using the 2 nights saving to pay the additional for the Dinsey Hotel? You could certainly have character meals for every meal, use the extra park hours to get on several rides etc. To me, 3 days, being able to use the park all day (including extra hours) with no travelling back and forth, with characters at breakfasts and supper on site, seems a better use of time and funds than 5 nights at another hotel plus paying for character meals, plus trains, etc.
3. Whilst folks are saying don't drive (and I do agree in part, that you shouldn't plan on driving in central Paris etc) driving from Disneyland down through France could be quite fun and, more importantly, something you can do at a very relaxed pace, as the children dictate. You could do a leisurely trip with a series of overnights, which could be at anything from a Holiday Inn Express, to a Chateau, depending on your preferences, down from Disneyland, through France (say, Beaune or Dijon (~ 3-4 hours drive), then Lyon (1-2 hours drive), then Grenoble (1-2 hours drive) and into Northern Italy, Turin (~ 3 hours drive), then Genoa (~ 2 hours drive) then Florence (~ 3 hours). There you could spend a couple of days (it's a lovely relaxed Italian city), and either fly back to Paris (and then spend a few nights in central Paris if you wish, and then take the Eurostar back to London), or fly back to London from Florence, or even, if you want to see a bit more, drive back up (say, a night or two in Como, with a stop for lunch in Parma, ~ 4 hours, then into Switzerland, Berne, Basel or Zurich ~ 3-5 hours drive, then up to Paris ~ 6 hours). You already know that 'side' of the road, you should read up on the nuances of French, Italian and Swiss road rules, but it isn't something I would avoid doing, just because road signs etc. are a bit different. As long as you look up in advance what they mean, and plan your route out, you should be fine. I'd also rent a regular car, not a minivan or the like, you will find parking, narrow streets etc much easier in something like a Ford Focus than a giant SUV or minivan. And the kids won't care, and the front seats are similar in both anyway. You can plan out what to do (some lovely walks for example, a visit to a vineyard, gorgeous towns, stunning scenery etc.) or leave a day or two to chance, and see what you find. The driving segments are short enough that the children won't get bored (and you can plan it around nap times, or early starts if you want quite rides) or bring a dvd player, or books on CD etc. but really, most are a couple of hours, with tons to see from the window (i-Spy books might be good for the older child too) and you can stop near enough whenever you like (obviously at an appropriate safe place!) for loo breaks, leg stretches etc. This is the sort of trip I'd consider, over 10- 15 days, to see a bit of Europe, not be rushed off your feet, be able to go at your own pace (unlike tours), and to have an opportunity to see a few things off the beaten track. The children (and you!) can try out some French and Italian in restaurants etc, but the places are big enough (and well used to English speaking tourists) that if you do get into difficulties that your language skills cannot cope with, then you should be able to find an English speaker. Given the fast pace of Disney and London during the Olympics, this sort of trip in between could be restful, and need not contain tons of walking (so the children can get a bit of break), but at the same time showing them things that they will learn from and appreciate.
In terms of doability, I have a friend who regulaly does something similar, starting in the UK (so another 4-5 hours drive to being with, as well as a channel crossing) and going further down into Rome with her 2 and 4 year olds.
Am I right in thinking your current plan is
Calgary - NY, spend 5-6 days here
NY to London via Frankfurt
possibly spend some time in London, possibly go straight to DLP?
5 days at DLP
Some time in Paris possibly?
Perhaps some time in Italy?
Back to London for Olympics, and other UK stuff
Home via Toronto for 5 nights?
May I suggest a couple of ideas:
1. Look at a UK travel agency for a package for Disneyland - usually Eurostar and Disney hotel, they can be considerably cheaper than booking independantly, or booking through a North American one. I have friends who pop over for weekends with their children always on some sort of offer.
2. Consider one of the disney hotels - not only because they are close to the parks, but because of the other perks they offer - you seem to like characters, you will find those in the disney hotels, you can do the disney dining packages with the character meals if you stay there, which you seem to wish to do anyway, some of the disney hotels have pools etc. which in themselves give the kids something fun to do. Reviews I have read of e.g. the Dinseyland Hotel say that you see all the characters around at breakfast and supper in the hotel restaurants - it sounds exactly like what you want from the experience, without then having to spend time travelling back to a hotel with tired children after the supper (or getting them out of bed to get there in time for a breakfast). I'm also thinking of economy of time. From what most people I know have said, 2 days is more than enough to do everything, so let's increase that by 50% in case you want to do some things twice. Have you considered doing onsite for 3 nights, rather than 5 nights - and using the 2 nights saving to pay the additional for the Dinsey Hotel? You could certainly have character meals for every meal, use the extra park hours to get on several rides etc. To me, 3 days, being able to use the park all day (including extra hours) with no travelling back and forth, with characters at breakfasts and supper on site, seems a better use of time and funds than 5 nights at another hotel plus paying for character meals, plus trains, etc.
3. Whilst folks are saying don't drive (and I do agree in part, that you shouldn't plan on driving in central Paris etc) driving from Disneyland down through France could be quite fun and, more importantly, something you can do at a very relaxed pace, as the children dictate. You could do a leisurely trip with a series of overnights, which could be at anything from a Holiday Inn Express, to a Chateau, depending on your preferences, down from Disneyland, through France (say, Beaune or Dijon (~ 3-4 hours drive), then Lyon (1-2 hours drive), then Grenoble (1-2 hours drive) and into Northern Italy, Turin (~ 3 hours drive), then Genoa (~ 2 hours drive) then Florence (~ 3 hours). There you could spend a couple of days (it's a lovely relaxed Italian city), and either fly back to Paris (and then spend a few nights in central Paris if you wish, and then take the Eurostar back to London), or fly back to London from Florence, or even, if you want to see a bit more, drive back up (say, a night or two in Como, with a stop for lunch in Parma, ~ 4 hours, then into Switzerland, Berne, Basel or Zurich ~ 3-5 hours drive, then up to Paris ~ 6 hours). You already know that 'side' of the road, you should read up on the nuances of French, Italian and Swiss road rules, but it isn't something I would avoid doing, just because road signs etc. are a bit different. As long as you look up in advance what they mean, and plan your route out, you should be fine. I'd also rent a regular car, not a minivan or the like, you will find parking, narrow streets etc much easier in something like a Ford Focus than a giant SUV or minivan. And the kids won't care, and the front seats are similar in both anyway. You can plan out what to do (some lovely walks for example, a visit to a vineyard, gorgeous towns, stunning scenery etc.) or leave a day or two to chance, and see what you find. The driving segments are short enough that the children won't get bored (and you can plan it around nap times, or early starts if you want quite rides) or bring a dvd player, or books on CD etc. but really, most are a couple of hours, with tons to see from the window (i-Spy books might be good for the older child too) and you can stop near enough whenever you like (obviously at an appropriate safe place!) for loo breaks, leg stretches etc. This is the sort of trip I'd consider, over 10- 15 days, to see a bit of Europe, not be rushed off your feet, be able to go at your own pace (unlike tours), and to have an opportunity to see a few things off the beaten track. The children (and you!) can try out some French and Italian in restaurants etc, but the places are big enough (and well used to English speaking tourists) that if you do get into difficulties that your language skills cannot cope with, then you should be able to find an English speaker. Given the fast pace of Disney and London during the Olympics, this sort of trip in between could be restful, and need not contain tons of walking (so the children can get a bit of break), but at the same time showing them things that they will learn from and appreciate.
In terms of doability, I have a friend who regulaly does something similar, starting in the UK (so another 4-5 hours drive to being with, as well as a channel crossing) and going further down into Rome with her 2 and 4 year olds.
Mar 19, 2012, 12:01 pm
#288
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA bronze card, NHS Blood Donor silver card
Posts: 1,617
I've only got a few pages through this thread so far (like emma69, I was directed here from elsewhere) and I'm not entirely sure I've got the willpower to read the remaining 16. However, in the event that another poster hasn't picked up on this:
No.
As well as what others have said about Croydon being dreary suburbia, the only way you'd be able to get from there to the Olympic Park in 20 minutes is by helicopter, and even that is pushing it.
I would leave at least 1h45min, and that's on a good day with a strong tailwind.
If you want to find out how long it'll take you to get to any venue during the Games, there's a Journey Planner, which also includes walking times within the Olympic Park, and estimated times for security checks, etc.
There are plenty of better places you could stay during the Games - I suggest that, if you haven't done so far, you search again!
As well as what others have said about Croydon being dreary suburbia, the only way you'd be able to get from there to the Olympic Park in 20 minutes is by helicopter, and even that is pushing it.
I would leave at least 1h45min, and that's on a good day with a strong tailwind.
If you want to find out how long it'll take you to get to any venue during the Games, there's a Journey Planner, which also includes walking times within the Olympic Park, and estimated times for security checks, etc.
There are plenty of better places you could stay during the Games - I suggest that, if you haven't done so far, you search again!
Mar 19, 2012, 12:04 pm
#289
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
I've only got a few pages through this thread so far (like emma69, I was directed here from elsewhere) and I'm not entirely sure I've got the willpower to read the remaining 16. However, in the event that another poster hasn't picked up on this:
No.
As well as what others have said about Croydon being dreary suburbia, the only way you'd be able to get from there to the Olympic Park in 20 minutes is by helicopter, and even that is pushing it.
I would leave at least 1h45min, and that's on a good day with a strong tailwind.
If you want to find out how long it'll take you to get to any venue during the Games, there's a Journey Planner, which also includes walking times within the Olympic Park, and estimated times for security checks, etc.
There are plenty of better places you could stay during the Games - I suggest that, if you haven't done so far, you search again!
No.
As well as what others have said about Croydon being dreary suburbia, the only way you'd be able to get from there to the Olympic Park in 20 minutes is by helicopter, and even that is pushing it.
I would leave at least 1h45min, and that's on a good day with a strong tailwind.
If you want to find out how long it'll take you to get to any venue during the Games, there's a Journey Planner, which also includes walking times within the Olympic Park, and estimated times for security checks, etc.
There are plenty of better places you could stay during the Games - I suggest that, if you haven't done so far, you search again!
)Perhaps more UK posters could chime in as I don't think that our advice was really being heard... But I did see last week that the hotels I suggested are still selling rooms at the price range I listed as of last week, and they are centrally located for both London sightseeing as well as relatively 'easy' transport to Olympic venues ('easy' being of course very subjective during an Olympic season as I also noted in that companion thread, based on past Olympic experiences)
Mar 19, 2012, 1:11 pm
#290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
Believe me, we did pick up on that (and made several suggestions) on the companion thread about the Olympics http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...c-info-11.html (And you're teflon, so you should have the willpower for another 11 pages! )
Perhaps more UK posters could chime in as I don't think that our advice was really being heard... But I did see last week that the hotels I suggested are still selling rooms at the price range I listed as of last week, and they are centrally located for both London sightseeing as well as relatively 'easy' transport to Olympic venues ('easy' being of course very subjective during an Olympic season as I also noted in that companion thread, based on past Olympic experiences)
)Perhaps more UK posters could chime in as I don't think that our advice was really being heard... But I did see last week that the hotels I suggested are still selling rooms at the price range I listed as of last week, and they are centrally located for both London sightseeing as well as relatively 'easy' transport to Olympic venues ('easy' being of course very subjective during an Olympic season as I also noted in that companion thread, based on past Olympic experiences)
Mar 19, 2012, 1:34 pm
#291
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
We had a discussion about Paris in the office; somewhere was 4,8km away, which sounds relatively close, but it was 3 streets to the metro station, 10 stops on one line, change to another for another 4 stops, then 2 streets to the destination. Suddenly 4,8km sounds a lot further away.
Mar 19, 2012, 2:03 pm
#292
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
Or I suppose if one is used to driving in a place like suburban Calgary, it may not sound like much. (It sounds like a long distance to me)
We had a discussion about Paris in the office; somewhere was 4,8km away, which sounds relatively close, but it was 3 streets to the metro station, 10 stops on one line, change to another for another 4 stops, then 2 streets to the destination. Suddenly 4,8km sounds a lot further away.
We had a discussion about Paris in the office; somewhere was 4,8km away, which sounds relatively close, but it was 3 streets to the metro station, 10 stops on one line, change to another for another 4 stops, then 2 streets to the destination. Suddenly 4,8km sounds a lot further away.
I think London probably is a hard city to describe, the lack of corrolation between underground and street maps are a part of it (I've know people stand in a 10 minute queue to buy a ticket, and then get the tube from Kings Cross to Euston, when it is what, 8 minutes walk?) but if you were apply the same to Bethnal Green and Mile End (also one stop on the tube map) you'd be walking about half an hour.
Mar 19, 2012, 2:23 pm
#294
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
I think people new to London also underestimate how much time it can take to change trains (I recall some of the jubilee interchanges are pretty long) too - it is often quicker to come out of the station and walk to another station than go through the rabbit warrens underground! Oh, and how deep down some of the stations are (couple of hundred feet at some points), and how long, and how many escalators it can take to get down that far! Although my pet hate is the wait for the lifts (and the idiots trying to 'lift hop') at Covent Garden.
Mar 19, 2012, 2:43 pm
#295
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
I changed at Châtelet–Les Halles this weekend, which seems to go on for ever and ever and ever. (Reminded me why I don't do that normally!) I think that I went through three ticket turnstyles, and took at least two moving walkways, then up and down several flights of stairs.
Although I generally think that the Paris metro system is better than the Tube, the Tube stations at least do better in the escalator department. One really gets a stair workout on the Paris metro; I actually counted last weekend and in 8 stations I only had one escalator, and it was the very last one of the day, and upwards only.
And Abbesses station has over 200 steps in a cirucular staircase, with elevators as bad as or worse than Covent Garden. I sometimes do a 'scenic workout' by following a climb up those steps with the climb up to Sacré-Cœur.
Although I generally think that the Paris metro system is better than the Tube, the Tube stations at least do better in the escalator department. One really gets a stair workout on the Paris metro; I actually counted last weekend and in 8 stations I only had one escalator, and it was the very last one of the day, and upwards only.
And Abbesses station has over 200 steps in a cirucular staircase, with elevators as bad as or worse than Covent Garden. I sometimes do a 'scenic workout' by following a climb up those steps with the climb up to Sacré-Cœur.
Mar 19, 2012, 3:51 pm
#296
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
You are fitter than me! I did covent garden stairs a few years ago in the middle of summer, with a small case - it almost killed me! Although I remember a bomb scare years ago, somewhere fairly deep and we had to take the emergency stairs up from the platform. I was fitter then tho. And everyone was terribly calm and courteous!
Mar 19, 2012, 5:57 pm
#297
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
This made me chuckle: http://www.peterblloyd.org/Shelter/U...ndTraining.htm
Covent Garden has fewer steps than Abbesses, but at Covent Garden the steps are only to be used in case of emergency.
Covent Garden has fewer steps than Abbesses, but at Covent Garden the steps are only to be used in case of emergency.
Mar 19, 2012, 6:18 pm
#298
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cambridge, England
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Posts: 1,208
I've used the stairs at Covent Garden a number of times this year, on one occasion i was encouraged by underground staff to use them, indeed if i hadn't on the same occasion i wouldn't have got home that night! I wouldn't recommend using them with children though, i've used them once with a 5 year old, not an experience i'd repeat
Mar 19, 2012, 8:59 pm
#299
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
Or when it is busy! I often see people opt for the stairs at CG bit I mainly stand and lecture foreigners on queuing etiquette! 
or I simply get off at Leicester Square, better for the blood pressure!!!
They do a climb of the CN Tower here twice a year for charity, I've volunteered and stood at the top managing crowds but have never been dumb/brave enough to climb myself! I think it is 1776 stairs total!
or I simply get off at Leicester Square, better for the blood pressure!!! They do a climb of the CN Tower here twice a year for charity, I've volunteered and stood at the top managing crowds but have never been dumb/brave enough to climb myself! I think it is 1776 stairs total!