Ancien Maestro

Well, the Scotland option as I said doesn't sound too palatable as we want to be in a relax mode.. and my wife wants to tour London for 4 or 5 days possibly before we disembark August 23rd.. so definitely, I think we're on the same wavelength, and wish things would be easier to visit the many countries and cultures.. which is a shame really..

Right now, just focusing on the cruise option.. getting deep on it as I've found out as an Amex Plat we get a couple category upgrade.. and also finding out changing ships to do other type cruises will result in huge additional costs for the kids.. so looks like the 7 night western mediterranean on July 23rd will be the cruise we take.. Plus not having been on a cruise ship, maybe we'll end up not liking it.

So where should we go immediately right after the Olympics to mellow out for 6 days or a week? I'm open for suggestions.. perhaps Paris immediately after the Olympics is an option, and elsewhere when disembarking the cruise for the 5 or 6 days before hitting up the Olympics..

As for EWR.. I want to confirm its location proximity so some research to be done on it for sure.. We've spoken to several people who has visited New York and they suggest not getting a rental vehicle.. but again, I don't know EWR or New York from a hole in the wall.. This trip is going to stretch our FT abilities, as we explore new territory both my wife and I (moreso I) have never been before..

BadgerBoi

Please consider cutting back on your time in Disneyland. It's a small park in Paris, and you'll probably find that the times spent in lines are shorter than the ones in North America, so I'd seriously reconsider the length of time there.

I'm very excited for you going to Europe for the first time. It's my favourite part of the world, and I still remember the way I felt when I saw wonderful cities like Amsterdam, Paris, Munich for the first time. Your family is very lucky to have you taking them on this great trip.

I'll follow this thread with interest, and at this point I would just suggest that you cut back on the number of places you plan to visit and spend more time in fewer places. It's going to be tiring doing all that travelling, especially with your littlest one.

Train travel is the way to go in Europe, you need to look at the various options for buying rail passes. Trains are much easier than planes with kids, you can arrive and establish yourself in your seats more comfortably, there's no tight security such as with airports, and your fellow passengers will be more tolerant of children. I'm sure your kids are well behaved in any case

I'm spending the month of June in Paris, sorry that our paths won't cross.

Ancien Maestro

I would love to visit Munich and Amsterdam.. would it be possible with an itinerary like mine without having to travel like 6 hours to one place.. so much to see.. I have a feeling we'll have to go back many more times in my lifetime to really absorb what its all there.. 5 weeks just doesn't seem to be any time at all, especially with a cruise and Olympics on this trip..

Thanks for the heads up about the train.. it sounded like airport style security.. and to tell you the truth that's how I'm expecting the Olympic venues to be like, except no need for passport id I think.. but probably some sort of id to make sure we're the rightful owners of the Olympic tickets..

So you've been to Paris a few times yourself? What sort of day tours would there be.. definitely Paris will be one of the stops on this trip..

I would do less days at Disney, but for sure its one of the stops, and I'm feeling we're already moving too much.. and extra days are cheap.. we don't need to do new things all the time.. but I think this time will be useful to get grounded to the time change and new location.. get us focus on planning and the balance of our trip.. Plus the kids can be happy, and we don't feel like we're rushing to get somewhere.. I guess we could always leave early once we get there and feel like we're getting bored.. but having little kids, we don't want to moving hotels too much.. and once we get into a routine groove, we feel alot more comfortable on the trip..

henry999

I'm curious as to how that would work. Is it some sort of virtual tour? For four or five days? You haven't mentioned anything about that yet so far in this thread.

cheers,

Henry

BadgerBoi

No, I was using them as examples, not suggesting that you go there on this trip. Save them for later, savour the places that you plan to visit this time.

As for day-trips out of Paris, there is Versailles which is amazing but very, very busy. My last trip I visited Fontainbleau which was also amazing but a lot quieter. From memory, it's less than an hour by train from Paris - you are no doubt aware that I don't travel with kids <g>, I don't know how interesting your own kids might find it. There's a cafe or an enormous park you could have a picnic in and your kids can run wild without bothering anybody. The day we were there a guy came around with a horse and cart selling rides.

In the middle of Paris there's a fountain that your kids will probably find to be fascinating, the Stravinsky Fountain in Place Stravinsky near the Pompidou Centre. You should aim to have lunch at one of the cafes in the square and let your kids loose around the fountain. Google "stravinsky fountain" and you'll see what I mean.

exbayern

There is a seperate thread about the Olympics in the Children forum. I'm sure OP would appreciate more posters familiar with London helping out there.

Not sure how/why one would think that train travel has 'airport style security'? OP there is a small forum here about European train travel, but you should do some of your own reading on the Man in Seat 61 website.

exbayern

I'm responding to this here as it really belongs on this thread not the one you have posted it on about emergencies.

Please don't just bring 'shorts and tops'. Don't, please. Your plan already makes you a very easy mark for petty theft, especially during the Olympics. Shorts are not worn as commonly unless for sports, or in beach destinations, but certainly not in the major cities which is virtually all you plan to visit. Shorts may be fine for onboard the cruise ship in certain areas, and if going to Olympic venues, but please bring proper clothing for the rest of your trip. Shorts are not appropriate for a lot of places, especially in big cities. And London, Paris, can certainly be very chilly in summer. Many posters here will disagree about the shorts, but from my viewpoint they are still not really appropriate (then again, it is hard to mistake someone walking in Paris in shorts, tshirt, Crocs, and a backpack as anything but a tourist)

Backpacks are not sensible. On public transport and in crowds they are an easy target for pickpockets because one cannot see ones bag. They are banned in some areas too such as in museums, and one has to remove them in other places.

'Rollaway boards' - we are referring to rolling suitcases. 8kg is the limit and one bag the limit on many intra-Europe flights, and will be enforced much of the time. Most North American carry on bags do not meet this size and weight limit hence you need to pack carefully. There are many threads about this on FT.

henry999

???

How does any of this relate to my question to the OP?

cheers,

Henry

exbayern

I thought that you were responding to his London question/comment.

He is planning to visit the Olympics in this trip as well. Details of the London portion of the trip are here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-4-family.html Rereading what I quoted, it does sound like he plans to visit London whilst onboard the cruise ship, since he talks about touring London before 'disembarking'. I'm confused about what he means.

OP, you asked about trains and porters. I'm still not clear on your sequence, but here is some train info for you and specifically about certain stations.

If you fly into/out of CDG to go to Disneyland Paris, do not take the TGV. Normally that is 10 minutes trip after getting to the station, but if you have to manage all that plus the children and luggage I don't think that is really a viable option for you.

Take the navette (shuttle bus) to Disneyland Paris, which brings you directly to your hotel in about an hour. It will be much easier as they will meet and greet you and escort you to the bus. Note however that you are not guaranteed space on the shuttle bus. http://www.vea.fr/fr/

If you arrive or depart via the Eurostar to DLP, you will take Marne-la-Vallée to/from St Pancras.

At Marne-la-Vallée you will need to get off the train, go up the escalators to the main level, and exit the station. For all Disney run hotels except the Disneyland Hotel, one can walk, but for you I don't suggest that. Exit the front of the station to the Disney busses. Note that they will be very crowded, but you can board the back of the bus where there is an area for luggage and strollers. Don't expect to get onto the first bus if in peak season. Trip to the hotels is anywhere from 2-5 minutes.

If staying at the Disneyland Hotel you exit at the right side of the station and walk. (I don't recommend this hotel, but in your case it may be the best option)

There is a petit Casino shop at this side of the station which sells everything from nappies to various types of water to washing up liquid. You can stock up on all you need, but for a bigger shopping Val d'Europe is one stop away on the RER and has an Auchan 3 minutes walk from the station. You could go there whilst your wife and children get settled, as you are the french speaker in the family, and pick up any necessities which you feel you need and which aren't available at the Casino.

There are no porters at CDG or Marne-la-Vallée train stations.

From where does your cruise depart? How do you plan to get there? iDTGV has some excellent fares to the south of France and one can book a zap car ie 'noisy' car for families. I'm not really clear about how you plan to get about ie by train or by plane. Note however that purchasing train tickets directly from the website is far cheaper in most cases than going through a North American distributor or travel agent.

exbayern

I just saw your flights

Chances are good that you will be flying CO from EWR to FRA, and then LH to LHR, correct?

In that case, you will be a prime target for NEK hand luggage checkers at FRA. They tend to send a third party to act as hand baggage checker on routes popular with North American tourists, and they definitely seem to target the obvious tourists from North America as they are often the ones who have too large and/or too heavy bags. There is an NEK thread here on the M&M forum, and I have spent a lot of time at FRA watching the outcome of this.

You also chose some of the most expensive and least novice traveller/child friendly airports in the world: LHR, FRA, EWR and YYZ. I'm still not clear how you plan to travel from London to Paris to cruise to Paris to London but I recommend train for most of that journey. We need to know the cruise part however to be able to better recommend things to you. I would avoid any more flying if you can, because it will be already challenging to manage what you have in place.

And I would cut down even further on the luggage at this point. Taking a taxi from St Pancras to Southall or Croydon will be prohibitively expensive. Take that money which you are going to spend on such things and add it to your $300 in central London during the Olympics budget to upgrade your London hotel to something more suitable.

Re your question about a rental car in NYC - don't! You won't need or want one in London, Paris, New York, Edinburgh or really anywhere else you have listed.

Also make certain that you understand what tendering is, as it will be common on your cruise. It is yet another reason why small children are barred from many excursions, and why your 2 year old will most likely be in the onboard nursey whilst you are doing excurisions. Not only do the excursion providers and cruise lines not enjoy tendering with small children, many parents do not either. With two small children and two adults, it will be even more difficult to manage. And choppy water can mean upset stomachs; a reality even in summer in what are generally relatively calm ports.

Jenbel

Ok, I'll throw in some thoughts on St Andrews.... I live in Edinburgh, was raised 40 miles from here, and have spent a decent amount of time in St Andrews.

I'd be tempted to go for it. The reason being, it's August, there are small children along, and St Andrews does have glorious beaches. Head there, and spend some time playing with your family on the beach. Put kids and sea and sand together, and they'll love it even if it rains. Stop with the sight-seeing for a couple of days, and just chill. It's a beautiful location, and St Andrews is a small town which is easily explored. So yes, it will take 6 hours by train - although it's also a very scenic route. You'll be soaking up Scottish small town life - so don't look on it as 'time wasting', you'll still be experiencing life in Europe.

Additionally, it is August and the Festival is on in Edinburgh. You can get a day ticket to Edinburgh on the trains (or bus might be even more convenient) to spend a day soaking up the atmosphere - there are lots of street performers, and the city really buzzes.

The other option for travel would be to fly from LCY to Dundee airport, and then arrange for a transfer to St Andrews. Dundee is maybe 15-20 miles from St Andrews, and so you'd cut your travel time down considerably - however it is AF/Cityjet, so you might pay a premium for this route. But it is mileage earning.

MSPeconomist

Some comments

If you will be in England anytime from several weeks before the Olympics start through their end, be sure to book a hotel NOW.

Many rental car agencies in Europe do request or require an international driving license. In the USA, they cost about $10 for a year at AAA, where I can get the photo for free. Even if it is not absolutely necessary, having one can be very convenient.

Also, many rental car contracts prohibit the car from leaving the country or entering certain countires. For example, a Hertz French car needs a notation on the rental agreement to even be taken into Belgium for a day and cannot be taken into Italy. An Italian car cannot cross the border into former Eastern European countries, for instance to some beaches near Trieste. Be sure to check this carefully. Also, if you use your home auto policy or credit card for insurance, be sure to read the fine print carefully. An automatic upgrade might result in something that is considered a luxury car and therefore not covered, for example.

I would avoid southern Europe at this time of year....hot, humid, crowded.

As others have said, avoid Disney or at least cut back on the days. It is not in a convenient location either and the logistics of getting there from Paris are a hassle.

For a first trip, do not try to do too much or cover too much territory. Do not attempt to drive on the wrong side, note that British roundabouts are especially confusing when done in reverse, and do not plan to drive or park in major cities or places with notorious driving habits such as Italy, Spain, the autoroute, the autobahn, villages with narrow streets, winding mountain passes, resorts with huge traffic jams, etc.

Some fun places with kids could be Amsterdam, Copenhagen (go to Tivoli instead of Disney), castles, parks, zoos, Swiss mountains with gondolas and cog railways, kid friendly museums, etc.

exbayern

Realising now from the various threads that this trip is actually SEVEN weeks, NYC+Paris+Cruise+Disneyland Paris+Olympics+London+somewhere+Toronto,
I agree that there needs to be time to stop and do nothing. Scotland would be my choice for that but I do think that there has to be a lot of 'nothing' built into the schedule earlier in the trip too.

mhnadel

I have no idea how child friendly they are, but have you considered a river cruise instead of a sea cruise? I know people who've done barge cruises in the UK and France and I think there are train / cruise combos in Scotland.

And I will also say to go for it with respect to the Olympics. I went to Athens for the Olympics there and, yes, there were crowds, but it was not unbearable and the excitement in the city was worth it.

Santander

I found your all of your posts in this thread to be rather offensive. You made so many careless remarks, like implying that Scotland isn't part of the UK, referring to Europe as if it was just one country, calling driving on the left as the "wrong side", and suggesting that Europeans drive on the left. Are you sure you even searched "Europe" on a map before? It is insulting and pretentious to suggest that an entire continent is only worth 7 weeks of your time. However, having lived in Norwich and Glasgow and having been to many cities in the UK/Europe before, I'll throw in a few of my thoughts anyway.

More than 1 day in any Disney park anywhere in the world is an utter waste of time and money imo, coming from someone who's been to Disney parks in HK, Tokyo, Florida and California. Even 1 day is somewhat questionable imo. Paris is the tourist city, why would you sacrifice even one minute of time in a theme park when you could be out seeing some proper sights and eating delicious French food? If you want to spend a week at the Olympics and a week on a cruise (both pretty good ideas for a 7 week itinerary), you shouldn't really be hopping all over the continent with 2 young kids.

I'd recommend a good amount of time in London (though I despise London) and take short side trips to other "essential" southern cities such as Bath and Brighton. It'll be much more leisurely and enjoyable than going up to St. Andrews for no reason. The UK isn't just one country, it is made up of distinct constituent nations which deserve their own time. You can do Scotland and Ireland on another trip.

Another thing you could do is stop in Lille on the way between Paris and London. It's a major city in northern France, a very nice part of the country which isn't as touristy as Paris or the Mediterranean cities. Actually, Brussels would also be a good "on the way" stop with more to do than in Lille.

If you've never been to Europe before I'd advise against renting a car. Fuel is much more expensive than Canada and driving customs are different. It's not just about starting the engine and stepping on the pedal, remember you'll have your kids in the back.

Good luck on the trip, I'm happy to see you've decided to take the plunge and leave your comfort zone of North American resort travel and go see the "real world". Maybe I'll see you in near future years flying to the "other side" of the world to Asia.