My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe next year. We are planning it like it will be our first and only time in Europe because we do not know if/when we will get to go back. We each have been saving our vacation and should have 2-3 weeks to go. I say 2-3 because we are not sure on the policies our companies have for how much vacation can be used at once. I just joined the Hhonors program so am working on building up my points to get at least a few free nights while over there. We are planning the trip in either the spring or fall. Thinking either April-May or Late Sept/Oct.
My main question is what should we try to cover in 2-3 weeks? There is obviously a situation where you do not want to spread yourself too thin, but you want to see as much as you can. Here are some places that seem interesting to us. My hope is that someone experienced can step in and add anything you think we left off, and let me know what is feasible to cover and how much time we should spend in each area. This is obviously a bigger list than we can cover. Like I said, the goal is to add anything left off, and trim it down to something feasible, which I am thinking is a list of around 4-5 cities give or take. Here is the list.
Rome and Tuscany
Paris
Berlin and/or Munich
Interlaken or other Swiss Cities
Amsterdam
_______________________ I am thinking this is about the cutoff for a 2-3 week trip, could even be less.
London
Athens
Florence
Venice
Sicily
Vienna
St.Tropez
Prague
What are your interests?
How active are you?
What is your budget per day (not including flights to and from Europe)
How would you like to travel between cities?
Do you mind sleeping on trains?
How much "down time" you need between active days?
What are your interests?
How active are you?
What is your budget per day (not including flights to and from Europe)
How would you like to travel between cities?
Do you mind sleeping on trains?
How much "down time" you need between active days?
Culturally significant sites in each city (architecture, museums, local areas, etc)
We are both very active, we exercise regularly, we both do a lot of backpacking, jogging etc
We would like to keep the trip to around $5000-$6000. I should have around 7 free Hilton Nights by then.
Train or short flights, doesnt matter really
Do not mind sleeping on trains
We do not need any down time really I wouldn't think
at 29,and only $4000 to spend on the ground, i would recommend skipping the big cities. i also think a car in italy will cost over $1000 for 3 weeks.
get a car wherever car plus flight is least expensive. check BRU,MUC among others.
get michelin green guides. drive daily from town to town. in 2-3 weeks, you could cover most of france and a lot of italy. there is far and away as much to see in the countryside as there is in the big cities.
the difference in room costs between paris/venice/rome and someplace in the boonies is €150-200 and €50.B&B's are even less expensive.
we went to our first big destination on our own dollar on about our 20th or 30th trip to europe. we were in our 60's by then.
i would skip chiantishire(not tuscany). it is not special, and should be a rick stevens poster child.
only $4000 to spend on the ground, i would recommend skipping the big cities. i also think a car in italy will cost over $1000 for 3 weeks.
get a car wherever car plus flight is least expensive. check BRU,MUC among others.
get michelin green guides. drive daily from town to town. in 2-3 weeks, you could cover most of france and a lot of italy. there is far and away as much to see in the countryside as there is in the big cities.
the difference in room costs between paris/venice/rome and someplace in the boonies is €150-200 and €50.B&B's are even less expensive.
we went to our first big destination on our own dollar on about our 20th or 30th trip to europe. we were in our 60's by then.
i would skip chiantishire(not tuscany). it is not special, and should be a rick stevens poster child.
My $ figure was not hard set. I talked to 2 people I knew who had been to Europe, who gave me an idea on what the budget would need to be. We could spend up to around 9-10,000 if we needed to. I really just thew out a number based on their recommendations. But I guess I was wrong. So, if we needed to spend more in order to see what we wanted to see it would not be a problem. With there being a big chance that we may not ever go back would skipping the big cities be very smart? I would think my wife and I would want to see at least Rome and Paris. Germany is kind of important to us, our families are from Germany.
How many cities should we be keeping this trip to, in order to avoid getting to a city only to turn around and leave?
I was thinking
Rome and Tuscany - 4 Days
Paris - 4 Days
Berlin and/or Munich - 4 Days
Interlaken or other Swiss Cities - 2 Days
Amsterdam - 2 Days
I know little about the travel between these places, so I do not know how much we would have to build in for that.
You are 29 years old and can spend $10K on the trip but you think you will not go back to Europe? Not sure I understand that. Short week trips to Europe are relatively inexpensive in the off-season if you rent an apt. Regardless.... here are my thoughts:
If you are not planning on coming back then I would definitely try to see as much as possible. I would definitely do some of the big cities where you find the best museums and culture. I also think spring tends to be a little cheaper than fall in the big cities. Fall is the months of fashion shows, theater, opera and prices sometimes are higher for hotels.
I would take a train pass. Go to ricksteves.com and look at train pass options. You can take all of europe pass for 2-3 weeks or just a few countries.
I would start in Amsterdam - maybe a couple of days. very friendly city with lots of stuff to do during the day and at night. Take a side trip to Kuekenhof to see the tulips if you are there in the spring. Lots of bike trails. you can rent a bicycle for a day and just ride around.
Next is Paris - should not miss it - maybe 3-4 days with side trips to Versailles, Giverny and you could venture to champagne country or a day trip to Alsace (it is not wine time but it is very pretty).
Next Berlin - a couple of days is enough - hip, happening place with tons of nightlife and some nice museums.
Next would try to do Switzerland (Interlaken is very nice) - you can spend a day doing some outdoors activity. Switzerland tends to be expensive.
Next would do Italy - start in Venice (expensive but one night is enough in the city) or you could stay outside the city and go in during the day.
From there to Florence - one night is enough or if you do 2 nights you could do a side trip to the countryside - wine tour.
From there to Rome - I would spend 3-4 days in Rome. If you have time a side trip to Pompeii is worth it, maybe the Amalfi coast in the south or Capri island. these are all one day trips.
Suggestions:
to keep prices down have a larger lunch than dinner (food is the same and less expensive); take the fixed menu - it is alway less expensive.
Take a night train if possible and sleep in the seat.
Make a few picnics where you buy some food, wine, etc... and find a nice park.
It seems from your budget that you are not too worried about the money.
If you want to shorten the trip, take Berlin out.
If you want to extend, maybe spend a couple of days outside or Paris or outside of Florence.
I travel to Europe twice a year on vacation and usually stay in cities. I have rented cars before; they tend to be expensive (when you add taxes, gas etc...), parking is a pain and for me it is somewhat stressful.
I would not recommend, if you have never been to Europe before, to rent a car for the whole time. Public transport is great in most cities and trains are on time and reliable.
If you want to splurge, get first class train pass. It is worth the extra cost. Less noise and more comfortable. On the other hand, if you want to hang out with tons of tourists then second class train is better and stay in smaller hotels. It seems like you already will be staying at some Hilton hotels.
London is probably a separate trip. You could start there and then go to Amsterdam; if you have more time you could go from Berlin to Prague and then to Vienna (Switzerland would be a little off the road).
I think it would make more sense to focus on one region. For example, fly into Rome, see other places in Italy you're interested in (Venice, Florence), then head to southern France and continue on to Paris. You could probably fit in a little bit of Switzerland in there.
I know you're saying you don't know if/when you'll get to Europe again, but if it is important to you, you will. (As opposed to, say, somewhre like Tristan da Cunha, where there is one ship calling in a year, travel to Europe is not all that burdensome.)
I suggest travel by train rather than car when possible on the grounds that it will allow you to meet locals. Looking at Eiropean rail maps and schedules will give you a good idea of the tranist times between places.
You are 29 years old and can spend $10K on the trip but you think you will not go back to Europe? Not sure I understand that.
First of all, thanks for all the suggestions they were great.
My wife is sick, and we do not know if this will be the one and only trip or not. Neither of us have ever been, and since we got married 6 years ago we have always wanted to go.
The main thing we have both decided is we do not want to feel rushed. We want to see what we are able to see, but really SEE it, not poke our head in and say WE ARE HERE! and then turn around and leave.
As others have said, you'll get better advice if you're more specific about what you want (and I see you've started doing this in subsequent posts,) but out of my own European travels, I can offer the following comments. Of course your interests (and other people's) may be different, but the points below may at least give you some suggestions to think about.
There's a tendency to "get the most out of the trip" by rushing around to numerous places, but it should be resisted. Things will go by in a blur, and your experience of most places will be superficial. Remember also that the more places you go, the greater percentage of your trip will be taken up with travel overhead (getting to airports, checking in and out of hotels, etc.) (Edit: I see now you've subsequently said the same thing, but I'll leave this point in to emphasis it for anyone else who reads it.)
A good rule is to stay at least three nights in any one place
The more research you do before going, the better position you'll be in to travel safely and economically, and the more you'll get out of your trip
For trips between cities, if it's a long distance and there are cheap flights available, I generally take planes, unless I want to take the train for the experience.
In general the best guidebooks I've found are Rough Guides and DK Eyewitness Guides.
Of the cities on your first list, Berlin is often underrated: wonderful museums, good cafe life, its heartbreaking history still much in evidence. Munich is probably a more pleasant place though. If you're not sure you'll get back to Europe, Paris should definitely be included.
As to your second list, despite its beauty, I wouldn't go to Venice unless specific interests lead you there or it's something you've always had your heart set on. If you do, be prepared for Disneyland level tourist mobs. Vienna is my favorite city on that list.
It would be a shame never to see the Acropolis, but with so little time, I'd tend to recommend you not go to Greece unless you devote at least a week to it and get out of Athens.
Last edited by Cha-cha-cha; Oct 29, 09 at 10:27 am.
Ok all great suggestions. Based on the opinions, I think I will try to do the following. What do you think?
May 12th - Fly in to Paris on wednesday. To make this simple I will pick a ficticious date. So say we fly in May 12th 2010. A friend of mine from London says he found its best to fly to Europe on wednesday or thursday. I would have asked him about all this but he has done little to no traveling outside of the UK. Leave for Amsterdam on the 16th.
May 16th - Arrive in Amsterdam. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Berlin morning of the 18th.
May 18th - Arrive in Berlin. Stay 4 nights. Leave for Interlaken the morning of the 22nd.
May 22nd - Arrive in Interlaken. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Rome the morning of the 24th.
May 24th - Arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights. Leave for home on the 28th. Have the 28th, 29th, and 30th to readjust before work
I don't have a specific response to your last post but I can chime in on a few things:
- We did 10 days in Europe last month. We did 3 days in Paris, 3 in Venice, 1 in Lugano, 2 in Lucerne & then had a quick overnight in Frankfurt and flew home from there.
- We flew on AA in first, on miles, so that was free. Of our 9 hotel nights, 7 were free. We did not drink at meals and only had a couple expensive meals. Our final cost ended up being about $3k...which was higher than I thought with the free flights and almost all hotels free.
- We felt rushed in Paris but that's just because there was too much to do....4 days there is probably best.
- Lucerne was very nice. You have a couple mountains for hiking (if you want to do that) or just for a nice day trip. There's also a great old part of the city that's historic.
- I found flying the long distances to be better (and cheaper) than train.
If you're interested in my trip report and/or pictures feel free to PM me your e-mail address and I can send it to you....it may be of some help in your planning.
Ok all great suggestions. Based on the opinions, I think I will try to do the following. What do you think?
May 12th - Fly in to Paris on wednesday. To make this simple I will pick a ficticious date. So say we fly in May 12th 2010. A friend of mine from London says he found its best to fly to Europe on wednesday or thursday. I would have asked him about all this but he has done little to no traveling outside of the UK. Leave for Amsterdam on the 16th.
May 16th - Arrive in Amsterdam. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Berlin morning of the 18th.
May 18th - Arrive in Berlin. Stay 4 nights. Leave for Interlaken the morning of the 22nd.
May 22nd - Arrive in Interlaken. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Rome the morning of the 24th.
May 24th - Arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights. Leave for home on the 28th. Have the 28th, 29th, and 30th to readjust before work
Based on the above, my Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, and Rome stays would be covered by points I have or should reasonably acrue before the trip. So that leaves flights and 2 nights in interlake that I need to cover, + all other ground expenses.
Does the time in each city seem reasonable? Is this a decent time to go?
Ok all great suggestions. Based on the opinions, I think I will try to do the following. What do you think?
May 12th - Fly in to Paris on wednesday. To make this simple I will pick a ficticious date. So say we fly in May 12th 2010. A friend of mine from London says he found its best to fly to Europe on wednesday or thursday. I would have asked him about all this but he has done little to no traveling outside of the UK. Leave for Amsterdam on the 16th.
May 16th - Arrive in Amsterdam. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Berlin morning of the 18th.
May 18th - Arrive in Berlin. Stay 4 nights. Leave for Interlaken the morning of the 22nd.
May 22nd - Arrive in Interlaken. Stay 2 nights. Leave for Rome the morning of the 24th.
May 24th - Arrive in Rome. Stay 4 nights. Leave for home on the 28th. Have the 28th, 29th, and 30th to readjust before work
Sorry to hear about your wife.
Check the night trains between Amsterdam and Berlin, Berlin and Interlaken, and Interlaken to Rome. It will afford you the opportunity to sleep between cities and don't forget to pack sandwiches, fruit, cheese and beverages.
Some of the attractions offer online reservations which you should consider so you can maximize you time instead of waiting in long lines. You can look at for Italy
I remember the first time I visited family in Italy - it was as if the long lost child had returned home.
Best wishes for your wife, enjoy and travel safe!
__________________
Every artist was first an amateur. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Check the night trains between Amsterdam and Berlin, Berlin and Interlaken, and Interlaken to Rome. It will afford you the opportunity to sleep between cities and don't forget to pack sandwiches, fruit, cheese and beverages.
Some of the attractions offer online reservations which you should consider so you can maximize you time instead of waiting in long lines. You can look at for Italy
I remember the first time I visited family in Italy - it was as if the long lost child had returned home.
Best wishes for your wife, enjoy and travel safe!
Another great suggestion. What are the trains like to sleep on? Are the cabins like bunks? Or is it more like sleeping on a plane?
