EK First vs EK J-class

Old Nov 14, 2016, 12:38 am
  #1  
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EK First vs EK J-class

I've been lurking in the shadows here for some time but not posted before. I normally fly BA and used to fly TK a lot being an architect involved with the new INA airport in IST.

Anyway, I'm now involved with DWC in DXB and had to use EK on the client's insistance for my flights to and from Dubai. The corporate travel agent we use through work had some sort of corporate offer and "upgraded" me from J to F on my first flight. Reason for the itallics will become clear below:

I flew on their A380 service between London and Dubai.

I was excited to try the EK first class but was immensely disappointed by it on the whole. First on getting on the aircraft I was told there was nowhere to store my two bits of luggage but that these have to go at my feet since there are no overhead lockers! I was aghast. The suitcase was fine but my laptop bag was forever in my way. And because of the luggage being at my feet there was no ottoman as you get in business class!



By contrast this is the ottoman you get in their own J-class:



Then as I was in a window seat in 1A (no I did not pick it - it was automaticaly allocated and I saw no reason to move places), I was expecting storage beside me as you get on BA in J and F class and in fact on EK's own J-class window seats. But no. Most of the space was taken by a pointless electric bar that I opened once and then didn't use again since you have at seat service. Behind me was my cushion, mattress and bedding stuffed in front of one of my two windows! Extremely untidy. Yet on EK's own J class all my bedding was neatly hidden in one of the bins to the side of the seat. Calm, classy and tidy.

The doors to my suite didn't fully shut and always left a one inch gap. They were also infuriatingly connected to the seat buttons. So sometimes I just wanted to move the seat and then the doors either opened or closed... When service came the doors were either thinking they were still to close when you pressed the button and tried to do the last inch or they opened again. You just never knew which it would do. And meanwhile your champagne was getting warm on a tray outside your suite...



The seat in F-class is also uncomfortable compared to the excellent seats in their J-class. The J-class seats are narrower yes, but are infinitely more comfortable. You also have more storage in J-class.

The entertainment screen was also of extremely low resolution and I didn't want to watch any movies on it. I've flown econommy on Turkish airlines with better resolution screens! I forgot to check that aircraft's code to see its age alas.

I found the food in first so-so and average at best and had better food in J-class on my return trip. I did enjoy the Dom Perignon 1998 though. :-) Much more than the Dom 2006.

Breakfast:


Mid flight snack:


Lunch:


Unlike on BA you also get a proper wooden tooth pic and not a useless plastic straw. Also unlike BA, that have no idea about button holes in napkins and what these do, EK's napkins in J and F have buttons holes in them.



The only reason to fly first with Emirates is to get a shower. And that I've done now and won't need that tick in a box ever again.

The bathrooms out front are huge (as on all A380s) and the entire floor is heated.





The water pressure was amazing I have to say. You have five minutes of warm water which you can pause for as long as you like. Five minutes doesn't sound enough but it is plenty enough time to have a shower.

Should my travel agent ever offer me another free "upgrade" to First on Emirates I have to sadly say I will ask him to keep me in J-class. I was really astounded by how much better their J-class was than their F-class and I really cannot recommend EK's F-class to anyone.



Quick fixes though:

- add above seat storage for suitcases
- add ottoman for feet
- do not combine door controls with seat controls
- remove the pointless fridge bar to be able to properly pack away and hide bedding or better still surely in First class this can be brought to you as and when you need it? I was on a day flight so it was really not required to have all that stuff on a shelf next to me.
- add more storage space
- fit comfortable seats

Last edited by 9wings; Nov 23, 2016 at 2:02 pm
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 1:27 pm
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Wow, as someone who has never flown Emirates, this is pretty amazing.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 1:35 pm
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1. Your two bags are quite large, I've never had issue with storage in F class
2. Why ottoman when you have a seat that goes up? Some people prefer not to have an ottoman (including myself) and the leg room is incredible.
3. I think the EK F seat is probably the most comfortable airline seat I have sat in, and I've travelled Etihad Apartments which is way bigger and roomier. I find the padding, leather, and width to be perfect.
4. Door controls and screen come down to wear and tear and is unfortunate, based on one of your photos it was still an HD ICE though so ... the newer planes have incredibly large screens, it's like a movie theatre
5. I agree the placement of the mattress behind the seat is not great.

Your assertion that J > F is ridiculous
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter
Your assertion that J > F is ridiculous
Strange. So because my two bags, that I have traveled thousands of miles with, are large in your view, this means my view is "ridiculous"?! Bless.

But I maintain that I will never in a million years recommend anyone spend a penny extra on flying EK F-class. It's terrible. Full stop.

But each to their own, I'll grant you that. If you like it and can live with baggage by your feet and no ottoman on takeoff and landing, by all means enjoy it. We all thankfully have different tastes.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 2:33 pm
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Originally Posted by 9wings
Strange. So because my two bags, that I have traveled thousands of miles with, are large in your view, this means my view is "ridiculous"?! Bless.

But I maintain that I will never in a million years recommend anyone spend a penny extra on flying EK F-class. It's terrible. Full stop.

But each to their own, I'll grant you that. If you like it and can live with baggage by your feet and no ottoman on takeoff and landing, by all means enjoy it. We all thankfully have different tastes.
Don't fall into a logical fallacy there. I did not say it's ridiculous because of that one comment of yours. Also sounds like you didn't spend an extra penny.

Try Kenya Airways in Y for terrible. You'd get one well with a gentleman in here who goes by aceboy
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 2:40 pm
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter
Don't fall into a logical fallacy there. I did not say it's ridiculous because of that one comment of yours. Also sounds like you didn't spend an extra penny.

Try Kenya Airways in Y for terrible. You'd get one well with a gentleman in here who goes by aceboy
I grant you that. It's certainly not terrible vs Y on any airline. But for something that's advertised as the best and has the expectations of being a first class product, EK's F disappointed me hugely with the basics. But then again I'm just an architect and we tend to be penickerty when it comes to details. God is in the details and EK failed me hugely there. Other people won't mind those things and like EK's F. As you clearly do. Nothing wrong with that view. That their J is miles better than their F is MY view.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 3:37 pm
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I agree that the EK F suite could have some improvements given the age of the basic design of the product, and of course there is no "correct" answer, I think that F is still a superior product to all of the J offerings that EK have to offer, especially on the newer planes.

I agree if you have ancient F then there may be issues - for instance you state that the resolution of the screen was poor, but the majority of the fleet have HD screens and IFE servers that can stream content to take advantage of that.

For the other issues:

- I agree two bags can sometimes cause a bit of an issue, but I have just travelled with 3 and didn't find it problem. I appreciate this is an entirely personal thing and some people enjoy having nothing in their way by their feet.

I think having no overhead bins is an acceptable price to pay for the ambience of a higher cabin ceiling feeling. The crew can usually find storage if it's a serious issue.

- Only the mattress can fit in the A380 side bins. In F and J the cushion is placed on the seat, with a blanket wrapped in plastic. I think the thick duvet you get in F is superior to the thinner blanket you receive in J even though in F it is placed behind you out of sight when seated in TTL position. The mattress in F is also superior in quality to the J mattress, imho.

- The door controls can be annoying if you use the in seat button, definitely.

The entire suite function can be individually controlled from the seat tablet though - 9 separate seat functions incl. massage, door opening closing, DND sign lights, etc. and it would be a failing on the part of the crew not to explain that to you.

I didn't have an issue with any gap on my last few F flights, so that is probably poor maintenance. The doors can also be opened and closed manually if needs be (but obviously this shouldn't pop up in F as it should just work).

- For me, seat comfort has a lot to do with width and I think you will find it hard to find anyone else who shares your view that EK J seats are superior to EK F seats. But YMMV of course!

- There is an in seat area attached to the bar/table enclosure which has more storage than the J A380 minibar seat storage. Was that not suitable? I find that much better than any EK J product seat storage especially as it is closeable.

- EK have the best IFE in the sky, imho - only a very, very small minority of aircraft have the ancient IFE with poor resolution. The vast majority of the fleet have a great hard and soft IFE product compared to what's available in the sky atm.

- The food is certainly average.

- The alcohol is certainly excellent.

- I personally despise ottomans as they are fixed and take up space, and find if you use the seat individual control on the tablet you can create much better leg space (or sit cross-legged if that's your thing). As you say though, entirely personal thing and I know many people who love ottomans.

In any case, it is good that on FT that we have a wide range of views! Thanks for the report.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 3:49 pm
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Oh I played with the seat controls on the extremely heavy tablet. And yes they could do the door on its own or the seat on its own. But due it being the size of a 1990s laptop it was left in is cradle and in doing so was too awkwardly angled to use comfortably.

Both flights reviewed above were day flights. On a recent J-class night flight I was able to put mattress, cushion and duvet in the side bins out of sight before I needed them later. That was impossible to do in F. Perhaps mainly as you say in that the bedding is thicker and better and take up more space. I didn't sleep on the F flight as I said hence my review didn't (and couldn't) compare the actual bedding.

An airy ceiling? Or luggage crammed at my feet? Gosh I know what I'd like but then I saw the post about the new A380 interiors in EK's J where they took away the side bins out back too!!! Gosh. Better to check all your baggage in if you want to fly with EK then. Now that's what I call ridiculous I'm sorry.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 3:56 pm
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I'm annoyed that I didn't make a note of the aircraft's registration number on the F-flight. But from what you guys are saying in terms of the terrible IFE I had, it must have been old.

But even in saying that the basic F layout is the same on the newer ones with detail changes - as I've noticed out back in J between the newer an older aircraft with totally different table designs (since the older ones got stuck too often and didn't want to open) and moving the USB sockets from above the ottoman to be above the bar.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 4:08 pm
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Originally Posted by 9wings
Oh I played with the seat controls on the extremely heavy tablet. And yes they could do the door on its own or the seat on its own. But due it being the size of a 1990s laptop it was left in is cradle and in doing so was too awkwardly angled to use comfortably.

Both flights reviewed above were day flights. On a recent J-class night flight I was able to put mattress, cushion and duvet in the side bins out of sight before I needed them later. That was impossible to do in F. Perhaps mainly as you say in that the bedding is thicker and better and take up more space. I didn't sleep on the F flight as I said hence my review didn't (and couldn't) compare the actual bedding.

An airy ceiling? Or luggage crammed at my feet? Gosh I know what I'd like but then I saw the post about the new A380 interiors in EK's J where they took away the side bins out back too!!! Gosh. Better to check all your baggage in if you want to fly with EK then. Now that's what I call ridiculous I'm sorry.
You definitely had the old IFE system as the newer thin tablet controls are much more responsive and easier to use especially for seat functions.

EK is not an airline that is friendly to those who carry a lot of hand luggage - the limit is 7kg per piece, after all!

The bins in J will still be above the middle seats though.

I have to admit, I prefer higher ceilings to having bags at the end of the seat, but yes, those who travel with a lot (as you do - relatively speaking from the usual EK pax profile, especially in F) may find it annoying.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 7:21 pm
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Originally Posted by 9wings
Strange. So because my two bags, that I have traveled thousands of miles with, are large in your view, this means my view is "ridiculous"?! Bless.

But I maintain that I will never in a million years recommend anyone spend a penny extra on flying EK F-class. It's terrible. Full stop.

But each to their own, I'll grant you that. If you like it and can live with baggage by your feet and no ottoman on takeoff and landing, by all means enjoy it. We all thankfully have different tastes.
Based on one f flight I think that's quite a strong statement. EK First ex uk is very competitively priced compared with BA on long haul routes - just ask MSM2000 who has become a bit of an F regular.

There are other advantages of First, dine on demand, 14 vs 76 people so it's far more private and in J it can take an age to get through the meal service, also the F lounge in Dubai airport is really quite good.

The IFE and screeen is one of the best things I've never had an issue with the resolution except for an a340 flight back from Oman in September in J. I also don't agree on the seat, in F the "lounge" position is really quite comfortable and superior to the J seat.

Seat storage is sometimes annoying if I have a few bags but then most of the time I'm lounging drinking DP so don't notice

Finally we all agree the booze is brilliant and the food is average- the caviar, soups, starters and cheese are good so just avoid the main or have the fish or pasta dishes

Last edited by m3red; Nov 23, 2016 at 10:13 pm
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 8:54 pm
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Maybe you'll get the same aircraft when flying J some time, and we'll see whether much of the problems were just due to that, rather than the distinction between F & J. You should be able to find out which it was with something like flightradar24, if you want to get its details.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 12:20 am
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On my recent AMS-DXB-AMS trip, I had a new A380 on the outbound, and an old A380 on the inbound. The picture quality on the older aircraft was terrible, especially the contrast.

In the safety video, the guy with the dark & light gray striped jumper appeared to be wearing a black jumper - it was that bad! I tried to watch Star Wars, but the there were lots of dark scenes at the beginning, so it made it pretty impossible. No amount of tweaking would sort it.

As for storage, I had a normal sized carry-on, plus a backpack. No issues with storing these at foot level.

Food is pretty dire these days. I just arrived in Dubai from SGN in J. The Vietnam Style chicken was disgusting. Lots of gristle. My missus had the snapper, which she said was OK, but nothing special.

Service was plain weird. No wine menus were available. It was a midnight flight, so they took food and drinks orders together. The FA asked what I'd like to drink, so I asked what wines were available. "Red and White" she replied...

I pushed the matter and said, "OK - what type of Reds?". Her next reply - "Australian". Eventually I just said "Any Shiraz or similar?". She smiled and said "Yes".

She then repeated the charade with my wife who wanted white wine. However, she knew even less about the white wines, so eventually went away and found a wine menu in the galley.

The first pour of wine was exactly 60 minutes after departure.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 12:34 am
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
On my recent AMS-DXB-AMS trip, I had a new A380 on the outbound, and an old A380 on the inbound. The picture quality on the older aircraft was terrible, especially the contrast.

In the safety video, the guy with the dark & light gray striped jumper appeared to be wearing a black jumper - it was that bad! I tried to watch Star Wars, but the there were lots of dark scenes at the beginning, so it made it pretty impossible. No amount of tweaking would sort it.

As for storage, I had a normal sized carry-on, plus a backpack. No issues with storing these at foot level.

Food is pretty dire these days. I just arrived in Dubai from SGN in J. The Vietnam Style chicken was disgusting. Lots of gristle. My missus had the snapper, which she said was OK, but nothing special.

Service was plain weird. No wine menus were available. It was a midnight flight, so they took food and drinks orders together. The FA asked what I'd like to drink, so I asked what wines were available. "Red and White" she replied...

I pushed the matter and said, "OK - what type of Reds?". Her next reply - "Australian". Eventually I just said "Any Shiraz or similar?". She smiled and said "Yes".

She then repeated the charade with my wife who wanted white wine. However, she knew even less about the white wines, so eventually went away and found a wine menu in the galley.

The first pour of wine was exactly 60 minutes after departure.
Expectations on night flights for me are very low these days.

We also avoid all chicken/curry options as they can be very fatty/gristly....Pasta/fish is the best of a bad bunch.

No excuse for the wine list fail - at least they had a list unlike on one F flight I did this year where none were even loaded.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 9:36 am
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9wings,

As m3red has alluded to, I have become a bit of a regular F'er (right, that's the humour taken care of).

Now, prior to flying in F with EK, my regular jaunt was with QR on the A380. I also fly BA F once a month (either A380 or 787-9), CX F once every two months, and have flown other airlines including EY in F too.

However, I think your post deserves a few comments from me (Disclaimer: I'm in a really bad mood due to TG, so apologies if it comes across in this post).

1) Lets start with the easy to address issues; namely those which others either agree with, or have already commented.

The fact that the doors to your Suite did not close, is frustrating. Is it a regular occurrence? I would say not in my experience, but I have encountered it once. In that instance, I simply forced them closed manually - no harm no foul. Had it happened on my first EK F experience, I would think it pretty shoddy, but a regular flyer (like yourself with BAEC Silver and TK Gold [I assume status match offer from last year ]) is used to small issues.

The food on EK is pretty average, but the food in the F Lounge at DXB is pretty good, so it very much depends where you start your trip. I second the advice given by m3red in terms of having the fish - EK are the exception to the rule of not eating it on a plane!

2) The IFE screens on the older A380s, are bad. Full stop. End of story. They should be upgraded, and it's a shame EK put these older aircraft on certain flagship routes (LHR), but I appreciate that rotating aircraft is far harder than I imagine.

You are wholly correct in your assertions, and like DYKWIA has said, I too have had to change movie due to the difficulty in viewing a dark film (which actually shouldn't have been that dark).

However, on the newer A380's (the vast majority of them), the IFE screen is huge and HD quality. As such, I simply find it unfortunate when I get an older bird, but I wouldn't say it stops me from watching the screen.

What I will add, is that the selection is excellent. It is changed monthly, and there's usually plenty to watch - or re-watch as is sometimes the case.

3) You mention that storage was an issue. I sort of agree, but experience has shown me that the A380, upstairs in F, isnt the highest ceiling.

It's a real first world problem to have your bags by your feet, but my wheely sits upright in the corner, and I have to lay my smaller bag flat on the ground - otherwise it gets squashed by the seat when in 'Bed' mode. My bags are similar size to yours, and laying my bag flat isn't great.

I think EK ought to find a solution to this, but it is far easier said than done - QR struggle and have to put all wheely bags in a storage closet at the front of the F cabin. This is a pain, and they haven't found a solution.

4) QR provide an ottoman in F, as do CX and BA. I won't bring EY into this equation, because The Apartment concept doesn't have an ottoman per-se.

I like an ottoman - however, even here I am picky. I like the one on QR but not on the others. Why? Because I like to wriggle. I have taught myself to sleep like a mummy on a plane, but when the seat is wide enough, and I can move about, I take advantage.

QR allow this, because the seat is extra-wide, and the ottoman is lengthy enough for a baby (in a travel cot) to sleep on. However, at 6ft tall, I still cannot reach it when sat upright, and have to move the seat to allow my feet to nestle.

The EK seat can be contorted into hundreds of different positions, but this can be fiddly to do - and you often end up more uncomfortable than you were to start with!

EK don't let me wriggle, due to the fact that the seat isnt long enough for my feet to remain stable. If they put a little lip at the very front of the suite, that would help. However, that is a very personal option, and everyone has their own preferred sleeping patterns.

5) Is it better than EK J? I think this is one area I cannot agree with you.

EK J on the A380 is a very good product - although in my view QR J is better on the same aircraft.

The movie selection is near identical, the food comparable, the service comparable (due to the sheer number of crew who work in the J cabin).

The seat is not as wide, and when you like to move around in your sleep, bashing into the foot-coffin, or the hard plastic on the side of the seats, is quite painful!

The storage on the sides in J is excellent I grant you, but with my bags at my feet in F, I simply reach forward to get what I want opposed to looking in the side-bin for my laptop or phone (which has been bashed about due to the lack of padding in the cubbies).

In terms of the overhead bins, they are being removed in J on the newest A380s, so perhaps you will prefer the F option.

Ultimately, it is a real case of YMMV. Everyone has their preferred options, and EK F is a bit of a novelty - the shower is great fun (but not exactly vital), the make-up mirror and over-engineered drinks cupboard is hilariously ridiculous, and the writing kit makes for jokes when you ask the crew where the post-box is.

I have found F to be cheaper than J on my current route, hence my regularity, and I do like the product.

However, if I was to fly it for the first time (and encounter the issues you did) I would probably feel similar. This is where FT excels itself, because we are able to say that some of the issues are one-offs. For instances where its pot luck (IFE), it's just part of the life of a frequent flyer.

You take the good and the bad, but hopefully you'll be willing to fly EK F once again, and, fingers crossed, you have a newer plane with the newest IFE (THE SCREEN IS RIDICULOUSLY HUGE), and be welcomed into a fully closed suite.

Safe travels,

M

P.S. Why am I in a bad mood? Because TG decided to play Christmas music...on a very loud setting...15mins before we were due to land into BKK...and it was muzak! Who on earth thought that would be a good idea!
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