Removed from aircraft
Sep 7, 2012, 4:23 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3
Removed from aircraft
Family holiday to Australia - 2 adults, 2 children. We flew Business class with Emirates to Dubai aboard an A380 on 25/7/12 and this was a very good experience. The journey that followed from Dubai to Brisbane involved a fuelstop in Singapore and the aircraft was the less comfortable Boeing 777.
During the flight our older son Max, who is 15 years old, suffered motionsickness - something he is prone to do. He was sick a couple of times but seemed to be over the worst by the time we landed in Singapore (he had stopped bringing anything up about an hour before we landed) though was still suffering from that feeling of nausea. Not pleasant for him but therewas no disturbance to other passengers - all the action had been in the toilet!
On re-embarking the 'plane we were greeted by stewards asking how we were and my wife pointed out that we were all excited about getting to Australia as it had been a long trip from London and that Max was not feeling 100% as he had been suffering motion sickness on the previous leg of the journey.
Ten minutes or so later there was an announcement that there would be a fifteen minute delay to the flight as some bags needed to be taken out of the hold. Some while after that a steward approached my wife to say that we needed to leave the aircraft. Apparently, without us knowing anything about it, Max's condition had been reported by a steward to Medlink, an airline health advice bureau, as 'constantly throwing up' and consequently Medlink had judged that he was too ill to fly. The bags that had been removed turned
out to be ours!
Crucially, this description given of Max's condition was totally factually inaccurate - he had not actually been properly sick for some time.
My wife, who works as Head Teacher of a primary school and therefore has routine experience of children, school trips, and a great deal of experience of this type of situation, had been monitoring Max's condition since he had started to feel unwell. She was more than happy that Max was only suffering motion sickness and so was I. In contrast, the Emirates assessment of Max's condition had been made in an instant as we boarded the 'plane without anyone actually having any contact at all with Max (no one even spoke with
him) and there seemed to be no Emirates steward on the aircraft qualified to make any diagnosis of his symptoms in the usual way.
After protesting vociferously the Purser eventually seemed to accept that there was no evidence at all that Max needed to be removed from the aircraft and he agreed to speak with the Captain to see if we might continue with our journey. It looked as if common sense would prevail.
We were standing in a position where we could see this conversation take place and can confirm that the Captain reacted noisily and with a lot of hand waving - he seemed upset to say the least. After a couple of minutes the Purser came rushing back to say that we must leave the aircraft straight away and there was nothing more he could do. We were really disgusted that at no point did the Captain get up to come and speak with us himself.
Left with little choice but to leave as our bags had already been removed and security would be called if we didn't, we were led from the aircraft like criminals, both our children crying. But we simply didn't know what else we could do? We were taken directly to the Raffles Medical centre (within Singapore airport) by the ground crew where Max was seen by a Doctor and declared 'fit to fly' within minutes of us leaving the 'plane.
We were then told that whereas Emirates had said that they would put us on the next flight to Brisbane it turned out that they would only put us on the next Emirates flight which was the same time a full day later. They completely refused to pay for a Qantas flight leaving some hours later and also the cost of seeing the doctor for the 'fit to fly' piece of paper and the transit hotel costs in Singapore would need to be borne by us directly.
So we paid to fly with Qantas to Brisbane a few hours later as we couldn't face getting back onto an Emirates flight. American Express Travel were great in supporting us throughout - such a difference in attitude between these two organisations.
We have had numerous exchanges since with SH who handles Complaints for Emirates ([email protected]) and have still to receive even an apology from her or Emirates for the way that we were treated. She even wrote to us after 'personally reviewing' the file and referred to our son throughout her letter by the wrong name which was a complete disgrace.
We therefore would like to share with other travellers that Emirates appear to know absolutely nothing at all about how to handle families with a child prone to motion sickness and travelling long distances. They know even less about customer service. Never again
During the flight our older son Max, who is 15 years old, suffered motionsickness - something he is prone to do. He was sick a couple of times but seemed to be over the worst by the time we landed in Singapore (he had stopped bringing anything up about an hour before we landed) though was still suffering from that feeling of nausea. Not pleasant for him but therewas no disturbance to other passengers - all the action had been in the toilet!
On re-embarking the 'plane we were greeted by stewards asking how we were and my wife pointed out that we were all excited about getting to Australia as it had been a long trip from London and that Max was not feeling 100% as he had been suffering motion sickness on the previous leg of the journey.
Ten minutes or so later there was an announcement that there would be a fifteen minute delay to the flight as some bags needed to be taken out of the hold. Some while after that a steward approached my wife to say that we needed to leave the aircraft. Apparently, without us knowing anything about it, Max's condition had been reported by a steward to Medlink, an airline health advice bureau, as 'constantly throwing up' and consequently Medlink had judged that he was too ill to fly. The bags that had been removed turned
out to be ours!
Crucially, this description given of Max's condition was totally factually inaccurate - he had not actually been properly sick for some time.
My wife, who works as Head Teacher of a primary school and therefore has routine experience of children, school trips, and a great deal of experience of this type of situation, had been monitoring Max's condition since he had started to feel unwell. She was more than happy that Max was only suffering motion sickness and so was I. In contrast, the Emirates assessment of Max's condition had been made in an instant as we boarded the 'plane without anyone actually having any contact at all with Max (no one even spoke with
him) and there seemed to be no Emirates steward on the aircraft qualified to make any diagnosis of his symptoms in the usual way.
After protesting vociferously the Purser eventually seemed to accept that there was no evidence at all that Max needed to be removed from the aircraft and he agreed to speak with the Captain to see if we might continue with our journey. It looked as if common sense would prevail.
We were standing in a position where we could see this conversation take place and can confirm that the Captain reacted noisily and with a lot of hand waving - he seemed upset to say the least. After a couple of minutes the Purser came rushing back to say that we must leave the aircraft straight away and there was nothing more he could do. We were really disgusted that at no point did the Captain get up to come and speak with us himself.
Left with little choice but to leave as our bags had already been removed and security would be called if we didn't, we were led from the aircraft like criminals, both our children crying. But we simply didn't know what else we could do? We were taken directly to the Raffles Medical centre (within Singapore airport) by the ground crew where Max was seen by a Doctor and declared 'fit to fly' within minutes of us leaving the 'plane.
We were then told that whereas Emirates had said that they would put us on the next flight to Brisbane it turned out that they would only put us on the next Emirates flight which was the same time a full day later. They completely refused to pay for a Qantas flight leaving some hours later and also the cost of seeing the doctor for the 'fit to fly' piece of paper and the transit hotel costs in Singapore would need to be borne by us directly.
So we paid to fly with Qantas to Brisbane a few hours later as we couldn't face getting back onto an Emirates flight. American Express Travel were great in supporting us throughout - such a difference in attitude between these two organisations.
We have had numerous exchanges since with SH who handles Complaints for Emirates ([email protected]) and have still to receive even an apology from her or Emirates for the way that we were treated. She even wrote to us after 'personally reviewing' the file and referred to our son throughout her letter by the wrong name which was a complete disgrace.
We therefore would like to share with other travellers that Emirates appear to know absolutely nothing at all about how to handle families with a child prone to motion sickness and travelling long distances. They know even less about customer service. Never again
Last edited by Zol; Sep 9, 2012 at 12:57 am Reason: Removed staff name
Sep 7, 2012, 5:03 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Australia
Programs: SQ & QF
Posts: 1,302
Are you back in the UK yet? If you miss a segment of an outbound trip some airlines cancel the return journey.
Sep 7, 2012, 5:05 pm
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
Am very glad that your son is OK and that it was nothing serious. But, air carriers on long-hauls have to look at it exactly the opposite way. Same thing as hospitals which treat stomach upset as a heart attack until the more serious condition can be ruled out. Unfortunately vomiting and dehydration at high altitude can be a lethal combination and while aircraft can make emergency landings, that actually can be very risky when aircraft are too heavy due to the fuel they are carrying for the long haul.
If you were at origin or destination and your son became ill, would you have flown without a full examination by a physician? I suspect not and that's what Emirates faced. While it's possible that they overstated the volume of the condition (to be polite), the fact of the condition alone is scary.
As to rebooking on another carrier, I very much doubt that any carrier would purchase a ticket for a pax in this situation on another carrier. Again, had your son become ill at the departure airport, the right thing to have done would have been to rebook you on the next available online flight. The same is true for this situation.
All of this seems terribly unfair in the instant, but looking at it as one must from the bigger picture, the inconvenience of delay is far outweighed by the risk of flying at high altitude over long distances.
There are other threads posted by people in casts or far along in a pregnancy. The calculus is still the same.
If I were in your shoes, I too would have been furious in the instant. But, upon reflection, I would be grateful that someone else made this decision for me.
If you were at origin or destination and your son became ill, would you have flown without a full examination by a physician? I suspect not and that's what Emirates faced. While it's possible that they overstated the volume of the condition (to be polite), the fact of the condition alone is scary.
As to rebooking on another carrier, I very much doubt that any carrier would purchase a ticket for a pax in this situation on another carrier. Again, had your son become ill at the departure airport, the right thing to have done would have been to rebook you on the next available online flight. The same is true for this situation.
All of this seems terribly unfair in the instant, but looking at it as one must from the bigger picture, the inconvenience of delay is far outweighed by the risk of flying at high altitude over long distances.
There are other threads posted by people in casts or far along in a pregnancy. The calculus is still the same.
If I were in your shoes, I too would have been furious in the instant. But, upon reflection, I would be grateful that someone else made this decision for me.
Sep 7, 2012, 5:20 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
Would waiting 24 hours really have damaged your vacation? If you would have missed a cruise departure I can understand but if not I'd take the night in Singapore and let your son recoup. As a child I used to get vicious motion sickness attacks and know how much it can suck.
Also I think the man waving his hands was just a Ft member EightBlack when they told him they wouldn't open another bottle of Dom until after takeoff.
Also I think the man waving his hands was just a Ft member EightBlack when they told him they wouldn't open another bottle of Dom until after takeoff.
Sep 7, 2012, 5:22 pm
#5
Join Date: Nov 2011
Programs: Skywards
Posts: 564
Customer service is non-existent in this company. The only way to speak to someone is through email, behind a computer screen. Try to speak to a gold desk member at the lounge - they will swiftly direct to someone behind a keyboard.
Its a shambles and I really feel sorry for you, hope you made it back safely & your wee one is doing well.
Its a shambles and I really feel sorry for you, hope you made it back safely & your wee one is doing well.
Sep 7, 2012, 6:53 pm
#6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
Programs: BA Gold | SK Gold | A3 Gold
Posts: 4,553
While this event is extremely unfortunate, I would say I've found one needs to be careful what one says to an airline. I remember once, checking in, started complaining that I was a little unwell and got a very suspicious "What's wrong with you" from the check in agent. I was quick to point out it was just a headache -so be careful what you say.
As for the Captain not saying anything to you personally - thats' not his job. He's not in a customer facing role, the Purser is, so don't feel bad about that.
As for the Captain not saying anything to you personally - thats' not his job. He's not in a customer facing role, the Purser is, so don't feel bad about that.
Sep 8, 2012, 2:29 am
#7
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,606
I think the worst thing about this is Emirates lack of support once they'd offloaded you (for no fault of your own).
They should have at least put you up in a hotel (I believe there is a transit hotel within Changi?).
You may even be due compensation due to Involuntary Denied Boarding, but I think Emirates would be very forceful in opposing this.
As mentioned upthread, if you having already returned, check that your returns tickets have not already been cancelled due to you not showing for the Singapore-Brisbane leg. I doubt this will have happened though, as your flight was Dubai-Brisbane - which you actually showed for.
They should have at least put you up in a hotel (I believe there is a transit hotel within Changi?).
You may even be due compensation due to Involuntary Denied Boarding, but I think Emirates would be very forceful in opposing this.
As mentioned upthread, if you having already returned, check that your returns tickets have not already been cancelled due to you not showing for the Singapore-Brisbane leg. I doubt this will have happened though, as your flight was Dubai-Brisbane - which you actually showed for.
Sep 8, 2012, 6:08 am
#8
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I think the worst thing about this is Emirates lack of support once they'd offloaded you (for no fault of your own).
They should have at least put you up in a hotel (I believe there is a transit hotel within Changi?).
You may even be due compensation due to Involuntary Denied Boarding, but I think Emirates would be very forceful in opposing this.
As mentioned upthread, if you having already returned, check that your returns tickets have not already been cancelled due to you not showing for the Singapore-Brisbane leg. I doubt this will have happened though, as your flight was Dubai-Brisbane - which you actually showed for.
They should have at least put you up in a hotel (I believe there is a transit hotel within Changi?).
You may even be due compensation due to Involuntary Denied Boarding, but I think Emirates would be very forceful in opposing this.
As mentioned upthread, if you having already returned, check that your returns tickets have not already been cancelled due to you not showing for the Singapore-Brisbane leg. I doubt this will have happened though, as your flight was Dubai-Brisbane - which you actually showed for.
Consider that if there had been an inflight emergency because OP's son was much sicker than thought and there were an emergency landing at a location not quite as welcoming to pax as one would hope.
I come back to the question of what would be appropriate if one were at home, one's child becomes ill and one has all the conveniences of home handy. Would you fly 1/2-way round the world without a full medical evaluation and opinion that it's safe to fly? I would not. The fact that this ocurred at an intermediate point makes no medical or policy difference.
Sep 8, 2012, 8:48 am
#9
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth (PER)
Programs: VA Gold
Posts: 263
While I do not blame the F/A for reporting your sons condition, this is yet another stunning example of the poor customer service on EK.
If EK observed even the basics in customer service I would have expected the OP to at least be provided with a hotel and transfers due to the offloading. Surely that is not over the top.
In my opinion someone from the flight deck should probably have explained the situation calmly to the family, rather than using the cabin crew as an intermediary.
Best of luck seeking compensation, I do hope you receive something!
If EK observed even the basics in customer service I would have expected the OP to at least be provided with a hotel and transfers due to the offloading. Surely that is not over the top.
In my opinion someone from the flight deck should probably have explained the situation calmly to the family, rather than using the cabin crew as an intermediary.
Best of luck seeking compensation, I do hope you receive something!
Sep 8, 2012, 9:49 am
#10
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posts: 811
One thing I don't understand here (about such situations in general):
The airport had medical professional(s); couldn't have they simply requested you to have him checked out?
The airport had medical professional(s); couldn't have they simply requested you to have him checked out?
Sep 8, 2012, 9:55 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
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I guess those who get air sick should make sure the crew don't catch them!
Several people get sick on a plane - it's not uncommon. I have seen people throw up on their seat, in the aisle, on the FAs, and if EK decided to remove all these people, none of their planes would ever make it to the destination on time.
I am not a doctor (give me four years
) but I don't think nausea and/or vomiting alone are a cause for major alarm.
Several people get sick on a plane - it's not uncommon. I have seen people throw up on their seat, in the aisle, on the FAs, and if EK decided to remove all these people, none of their planes would ever make it to the destination on time.
I am not a doctor (give me four years
) but I don't think nausea and/or vomiting alone are a cause for major alarm.
Sep 8, 2012, 10:00 am
#12
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 721
I feel miserable reading this. SHAME ON EMIRATES for total lack of support.
Sep 8, 2012, 11:16 am
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I guess those who get air sick should make sure the crew don't catch them!
Several people get sick on a plane - it's not uncommon. I have seen people throw up on their seat, in the aisle, on the FAs, and if EK decided to remove all these people, none of their planes would ever make it to the destination on time.
I am not a doctor (give me four years) but I don't think nausea and/or vomiting alone are a cause for major alarm.
Several people get sick on a plane - it's not uncommon. I have seen people throw up on their seat, in the aisle, on the FAs, and if EK decided to remove all these people, none of their planes would ever make it to the destination on time.
I am not a doctor (give me four years
) but I don't think nausea and/or vomiting alone are a cause for major alarm.
Sep 8, 2012, 4:24 pm
#14
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: 30,000ft
Programs: EK, BA, EY, SQ, IHG, HH, SPG
Posts: 670
Removed from aircraft
It is a tricky one I suppose. I agree with Ung that it is very easy to end up with a raised eyebrow when you say you feel a little unwell, I had that feeling myself and quickly said I was fine.
I don't think there is much upside for an airline in allowing passengers with certain symptoms to continue travel. Serious illness on board after the captain or FA allowed them to travel will, apart from the predicament of the passenger, probably result in disciplinary action and maybe even fines from the country they are flying to for allowing a sick person to travel. On the other hand it's not the passenger's fault so EK could have been more helpful although they may say its the passenger's fault for travelling when he knew he was sick. In this case common sense should have prevailed where they recognise it's probably only minor but had to offload for procedure reasons and so provided some after support and not ruined a journey and lost a passenger for life no doubt.
I don't think there is much upside for an airline in allowing passengers with certain symptoms to continue travel. Serious illness on board after the captain or FA allowed them to travel will, apart from the predicament of the passenger, probably result in disciplinary action and maybe even fines from the country they are flying to for allowing a sick person to travel. On the other hand it's not the passenger's fault so EK could have been more helpful although they may say its the passenger's fault for travelling when he knew he was sick. In this case common sense should have prevailed where they recognise it's probably only minor but had to offload for procedure reasons and so provided some after support and not ruined a journey and lost a passenger for life no doubt.
Sep 8, 2012, 7:21 pm
#15
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,581
Whether medlink was informed accurately about the symptoms is not going to be known since the person who informed them is not ( afaik ) on this forum
The attendant may have given an accurate description of the symptoms on arrival but what was reported to passenger misrepresented what the attendant said
What I do see though, is that if medlink advised that the passenger was too ill to fly, that it would be very strange for a flight captain to override this advice and so do not see that the captain did anything wrong at all in refusing travel
If the passenger's parent was a medical doctor, she may have been able to diagnose the child as being ok to travel, but being a head teacher of a school does not make her qualified to provide an "ok to fly" certificate
The attendant may have given an accurate description of the symptoms on arrival but what was reported to passenger misrepresented what the attendant said
What I do see though, is that if medlink advised that the passenger was too ill to fly, that it would be very strange for a flight captain to override this advice and so do not see that the captain did anything wrong at all in refusing travel
If the passenger's parent was a medical doctor, she may have been able to diagnose the child as being ok to travel, but being a head teacher of a school does not make her qualified to provide an "ok to fly" certificate
Last edited by Dave Noble; Sep 8, 2012 at 8:10 pm