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Old Sep 15, 2012, 3:25 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Except it isn't evidence based, it is based on your own subjective opinions

I doubt very much that any airline pilot , given advice that a passenger should not travel without getting checked by a doctor is going to do anything different

Maybe some airlines might provide accommodation in this situation, but I don't see that they have any obligation to do so
Without wishing the thread to enter into a philosophical debate, subjective opinions are those which are biased (e.g. my son is the best footballer in the world; unless you happen to be Mrs Messi of course); objective opinions are based on facts and not subject to emotions. I would have thought it impossible for OP to have an objective opinion abut Emirates on the basis of the 'facts' as perceived by him and whether he is biased as in above example or not is another matter.

Anyway, glad he got back and seems genuine aggrieved and hard done by whether one sympathises or not.

I think I have a suggested plot for Alexander McCall Smith's next instalment of the Isabel Dalhousie novels though!
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 4:08 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by OzTennis
Without wishing the thread to enter into a philosophical debate, subjective opinions are those which are biased (e.g. my son is the best footballer in the world; unless you happen to be Mrs Messi of course); objective opinions are based on facts and not subject to emotions. I would have thought it impossible for OP to have an objective opinion abut Emirates on the basis of the 'facts' as perceived by him and whether he is biased as in above example or not is another matter.

Anyway, glad he got back and seems genuine aggrieved and hard done by whether one sympathises or not.

I think I have a suggested plot for Alexander McCall Smith's next instalment of the Isabel Dalhousie novels though!
Lol ;-).
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Old Sep 15, 2012, 9:23 am
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by Robinsonpyy
Just to say my motivation for posting this thread was really to try and support other parents travelling with children with clear, evidence based opinion on choice of airline as it is very difficult for families who fly irregularly to know what’s best.
Unfortunately, one anecdote is not data. I understand your feelings about EK, but I wouldn't base my decisions on them. I do think, however, that there is a lesson to be learned from your experience:

Originally Posted by Doc Savage

Take home point: Don't answer intrusive personal questions from anyone, including FAs.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 1:34 am
  #64  
 
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Take home point: Do not answer any intrusive questions
Whe you board a cruise ship these days, they all give you a health questionnaire to fill in and sign before you are allowed to embark.

It asks along the lines of: "Are you suffering from nausea or stomach problems, have you had a cold or flu-like symptoms in the last few days?".

This is to try and limit the spread of Norwalk and other viral outbreaks within the close community on board.

If you are rash enough to answer "Yes", a ship's medic will be on the scene within minutes to assess your condition and decide whether you are fit to travel.

If you have a temperature or any of the above symptoms you will be very likely be denied boarding and your vacation plans will be in ruins.

At least in that situation a qualified medic actually meets the traveller face to face, unlike in the case of this unfortunate family!

Last edited by bollinge; Sep 16, 2012 at 1:42 am
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 7:57 am
  #65  
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What's really disgusting is people taking public transportation and expecting to be treated as if they were on a personal jet. Also, people who think that just because they have kids their interests must be seen before everybody else's.

However unpleasant the result is to the OP, EK did precisely what they were supposed to do - when they saw a possible health threat (motion sickness is not the only thing that can cause vomiting), they removed the pax from the airplane so that he could be seen by a doctor.

Should have EK held the whole plane until the pax was examined? No. There were a lot of other people on the plane for many of whom departing on time was important.

Should have EK paid for the hotel room? No. The OP trip interruption was not EK's fault. The OP should have had (and probably have had) trip insurance that would possibly have covered the trip interruption costs.

Should have EK accommodated the OP on the next earliest flight? No. Again, the OP trip interruption was not EK's fault.

So, what's the problem here? The alleged impoliteness of EK's employees towards the OP? But it seems that impoliteness wasn't the point of contention - the OP seems to be upset because EK removed them from the plane (which was the right call), and didn't pay for their hotel (which EK wasn't obligated to do), and didn't buy them a ticket on QF (which EK wasn't obligated to do).

So, please stop acting as if EK didn't give you something they owed you. What would happen if EK let you fly and Max had complications mid-flight? Would you not be posting here that bad EK let your family fly instead of doing the right thing and sending Max to see a doctor?
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 8:28 am
  #66  
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Originally Posted by burlax
....Should have EK held the whole plane until the pax was examined? No. There were a lot of other people on the plane for many of whom departing on time was important.

Should have EK paid for the hotel room? No. The OP trip interruption was not EK's fault. The OP should have had (and probably have had) trip insurance that would possibly have covered the trip interruption costs.

Should have EK accommodated the OP on the next earliest flight? No. Again, the OP trip interruption was not EK's fault.

So, what's the problem here? The alleged impoliteness of EK's employees towards the OP? But it seems that impoliteness wasn't the point of contention - the OP seems to be upset because EK removed them from the plane (which was the right call), and didn't pay for their hotel (which EK wasn't obligated to do), and didn't buy them a ticket on QF (which EK wasn't obligated to do)...
+1. I couldn't have said it better.^
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 5:48 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Except it isn't evidence based, it is based on your own subjective opinions

I doubt very much that any airline pilot , given advice that a passenger should not travel without getting checked by a doctor is going to do anything different

Maybe some airlines might provide accommodation in this situation, but I don't see that they have any obligation to do so
I think it is a good warning, well received by parents, and the fact that the child was cleared for travel does lend credence to the OPs point.

Airlines have no obligation to provide anything other than advertised customer service. That is neither here nor there. It is how airlines handle human beings in irregular circumstances that does (and should ) make a reputational
difference. Offloading a family with a sick child enroute and then doing nothing about their subsistence and wellbeing at one's own hub, does little credit to
Emirates, in my view.

On another note, I trust all the people who speculated about " the one post wonder" will also review their own statements on this post again for pointers on future engagement. Many people who post here are too busy (or have other priorities ) to check their posts with the breathlessness that regulars do, and speculation about their motives is discourteous and pointless.
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Old Sep 16, 2012, 7:12 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by rathin100
I think it is a good warning, well received by parents, and the fact that the child was cleared for travel does lend credence to the OPs point.

Airlines have no obligation to provide anything other than advertised customer service. That is neither here nor there. It is how airlines handle human beings in irregular circumstances that does (and should ) make a reputational
difference. Offloading a family with a sick child enroute and then doing nothing about their subsistence and wellbeing at one's own hub, does little credit to
Emirates, in my view.

On another note, I trust all the people who speculated about " the one post wonder" will also review their own statements on this post again for pointers on future engagement. Many people who post here are too busy (or have other priorities ) to check their posts with the breathlessness that regulars do, and speculation about their motives is discourteous and pointless.
+1. I couldn't have said it better.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 12:48 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by rathin100
I think it is a good warning, well received by parents, and the fact that the child was cleared for travel does lend credence to the OPs point.
A good warning of what? it doesn't matter what airline it is or whether it is a child or an adult; if information has been passed to a group such as medlink and that organisation recommends that a passenger be checked before being permitted to travel , the same issue will apply

Originally Posted by rathin100
Airlines have no obligation to provide anything other than advertised customer service. That is neither here nor there. It is how airlines handle human beings in irregular circumstances that does (and should ) make a reputational
difference. Offloading a family with a sick child enroute and then doing nothing about their subsistence and wellbeing at one's own hub, does little credit to
Emirates, in my view.
Since they have no obligation to provide anything extra, then it is not reasonable to expect more than what they are obligated to provide. That is where travel insurance comes in; if a passenger chooses not to take out insurance then they are self-insuring and it is up to them to allow for it



Originally Posted by rathin100

On another note, I trust all the people who speculated about " the one post wonder" will also review their own statements on this post again for pointers on future engagement. Many people who post here are too busy (or have other priorities ) to check their posts with the breathlessness that regulars do, and speculation about their motives is discourteous and pointless.
when someone doesn't return for one week , that suggests to me that they are not overly interested in what a forum has to say once the rant is complete
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 5:27 am
  #70  
 
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A good warning, based on a reported experience, that this airline will stick to the letter of the law and families must be prepared for the consequences rather than choose another airline option where reported experience may indicate better responsiveness.

On whether it is reasonable to expect more humanity than required by the ToS, I think we can agree to disagree.
I think saying that one should not expect more than the ToS is an opinion, with which I disagree ( I don't disagree that the ToS determines the expectation floor, that's a truism ).
I received much more than the ToS warrants from both BA and LH, during IRROPS, last year... this would obviously shape my relative judgement on EK should the occasion arise. It's a competitive world and perceptions shape choices, quite reasonably, if some companies perform better than ToS compared to others. This is good feedback, for me , from this vantage.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 6:38 am
  #71  
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Originally Posted by rathin100
I received much more than the ToS warrants from both BA and LH, during IRROPS, last year...
Whereas I got crap service from BA last year... They diverted to DUB, and just left me to sort myself out. Then refused any sort of refund of expenses.
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 8:01 am
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
Whereas I got crap service from BA last year... They diverted to DUB, and just left me to sort myself out. Then refused any sort of refund of expenses.
There you go It probably cancels out anyway across carriers. Though reporting these things should keep them keen.
I do suspect BA GGLs and LH. Senators (and HONS) get preferential treatment during IRROPS, not sure if that's the case with EK. My gold seems to make zero difference in normal times ( no IRROPS xperience though but no shortage of rude behavior.... Twice.. following damage to baggage notwithstanding my personal follow up and despite being gold and j class up here in BKK )

But they were very nice to EB during the US storm a couple of years ago, as I recall from his trip report....
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 8:11 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage
Take home point: Don't answer intrusive personal questions from anyone, including FAs.
Agreed! I fell very unwell with a runny bottom on a BA flight home from BKK. At no time did I make my predicament known to the FA's for fear of being unloaded in Katmandu. They could have however recorded my time spent in the wee room without a view and made their own conclusions

Last edited by ballogie; Sep 17, 2012 at 9:03 am Reason: punctuation
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Old Sep 17, 2012, 2:04 pm
  #74  
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As I said, having provided evidence based opinion it is for visitors to this site to reach their own conclusions. As yet I've nothing to add to the original posting. I am both flattered and surprised to see some visitors posting many times on this subject. I am reading the comments with interest, even the weaker and ruder ones but I have a business to run and money to earn for the next trip, definitely not with Emirates.
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Old Sep 20, 2012, 11:55 pm
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by ballogie
Agreed! I fell very unwell with a runny bottom on a BA flight home from BKK. At no time did I make my predicament known to the FA's for fear of being unloaded in Katmandu. They could have however recorded my time spent in the wee room without a view and made their own conclusions
Thank you for sharing this data point even though some may think it is verbal diarrhea
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