Programs: EL AL Matmid Platinum, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ly787
lets keep thing in porportions
Are you comparing the first few days of one of the largest and most sophisticated airport terminals for one of the biggest airlines in the world to a long over due internet booking system for a small airline !?!?!?!?!
Well, considering that the UK government is trying to fix things up as best as they can, and there is talk of the entire top tier of BA management resigning, I would say that it is quite a monumental disaster. 450 cancelled flights in the first week, and at least 25,000 suitcases stuck is no small matter. The place was supposedly being dry-run for 3 months before it opened. It is, without doubt, one of the biggest British building fiascos ever (read the BBC and the UK newspapers and you will get a better picture).
Programs: BA Gold ,BD Gold, VS Silver, LY Matmid, HH Gold, IC Ambassador, SPG Gold, Avis President club etc...
Posts: 5,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ly787
lets keep thing in porportions
Are you comparing the first few days of one of the largest and most sophisticated airport terminals for one of the biggest airlines in the world to a long over due internet booking system for a small airline !?!?!?!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebg
Well, considering that the UK government is trying to fix things up as best as they can, and there is talk of the entire top tier of BA management resigning, I would say that it is quite a monumental disaster. 450 cancelled flights in the first week, and at least 25,000 suitcases stuck is no small matter. The place was supposedly being dry-run for 3 months before it opened. It is, without doubt, one of the biggest British building fiascos ever (read the BBC and the UK newspapers and you will get a better picture).
I agree with ly787. Mike, I don't think ly787 doubted what you are saying regarding the T5 shambles.
I agree that the whole T5 disaster was a total disgrace (still is in fact) you cannot compare the two.
Programs: BA Gold ,BD Gold, VS Silver, LY Matmid, HH Gold, IC Ambassador, SPG Gold, Avis President club etc...
Posts: 5,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by LY777
if you have a flight operated by a 767, you can't know whether it is a 767-200 or -300: they are listed as "767-200/300"; and of course, it is not possible anymore to know whether it is a 767-200 or -200ER!
While whether you will be traveling on a 762 or 762-ER doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference, the difference between the 762 and 763 does, I agree.
The seating configurations are different; and the 763 is a much nicer newer aircraft.
This new system sounds awful.
Since we now have 2 LY insiders here, perhaps one of them would like to take this to their attention and get something done about it?
Well, considering that the UK government is trying to fix things up as best as they can, and there is talk of the entire top tier of BA management resigning, I would say that it is quite a monumental disaster. 450 cancelled flights in the first week, and at least 25,000 suitcases stuck is no small matter. The place was supposedly being dry-run for 3 months before it opened. It is, without doubt, one of the biggest British building fiascos ever (read the BBC and the UK newspapers and you will get a better picture).
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman
I agree with ly787. Mike, I don't think ly787 doubted what you are saying regarding the T5 shambles.
I agree that the whole T5 disaster was a total disgrace (still is in fact) you cannot compare the two.
When will LY's top tier start paying for their mistakes?
With LY there is ALWAYS a feeling of "something is missing" or "not perfect", since the Borovitch are around.
1. Not exactly First Class. Its actually a Flat Business Class seat with business class "tray" food service.
2. The buisness class - better than they had but still not great.
3. The new AVOD only in TWO a/c.
4. The mood lighting never used properly.
5. New seats only in C and F - not in Y.
etc etc etc
Ah - and the "NEW" EWR lounge - outside the terminal in the Marriott.
Programs: EL AL Matmid Platinum, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ly787
When will LY's top tier start paying for their mistakes?
With LY there is ALWAYS a feeling of "something is missing" or "not perfect", since the Borovitch are around.
I don't think that Borovitch has anything to do with the current malaise. They are in it for the money. If the management makes more money they will stay. If not, they will go.
I think that the root problem with the First Class product (and I have told EL AL's management this directly on more than one occasion) is rather like those Israelis who, in the 1980's would say that the economic solutions which cures the British and European economies would not work in Israel, because the Israeli economy 'was different' and the rules which worked in the rest of the world wouldn't work here. Of course, as we now know, they were quite wrong. I think that somehow, EL AL's management feel that 'EL AL is different', and what works for other airlines First Class product doesn't apply to them. Now, they may be correct with respect to some things, but I am not at all convinced. They make a big noise about the price of A class to NYC being reduced as a result of making it more cramped, but all that happened was that BA reduced their prices as well ... for a 'real' F product!
Having been in the new 772 F cabin last week for the first time, all I can say is that the whole thing probably boils down to 60 cm. I reckon that by adding 30cm to each row in F they would have a F product where the window seat passenger doesn't need to climb over and disturb the aisle passenger (because of this I always book seats D or G in the new F on the 772). That boils down to one row of economy seats ... what can I say?
I don't think that Borovitch has anything to do with the current malaise. They are in it for the money. If the management makes more money they will stay. If not, they will go.
I think that the root problem with the First Class product (and I have told EL AL's management this directly on more than one occasion) is rather like those Israelis who, in the 1980's would say that the economic solutions which cures the British and European economies would not work in Israel, because the Israeli economy 'was different' and the rules which worked in the rest of the world wouldn't work here. Of course, as we now know, they were quite wrong. I think that somehow, EL AL's management feel that 'EL AL is different', and what works for other airlines First Class product doesn't apply to them. Now, they may be correct with respect to some things, but I am not at all convinced. They make a big noise about the price of A class to NYC being reduced as a result of making it more cramped, but all that happened was that BA reduced their prices as well ... for a 'real' F product!
Having been in the new 772 F cabin last week for the first time, all I can say is that the whole thing probably boils down to 60 cm. I reckon that by adding 30cm to each row in F they would have a F product where the window seat passenger doesn't need to climb over and disturb the aisle passenger (because of this I always book seats D or G in the new F on the 772). That boils down to one row of economy seats ... what can I say?
1. I think the borovitch have everything to do with the problems. They are not running the airline in the most professional way. I have a business and I make sure EVERYTHING i approve is to the highest standard. Even if I try to save money and take a cheaper option sometimes, I make sure the product is as perferct as it can be.
2.I dont know what they are taking about "lowering" the First Class fares. I have noticed that they are back up to what they were and even this morning I posted that I saw on the new website First class fare in May to NY was almost $10,000!!! $12,000 to LAX!!
3.Pitch in First is about 72". In Business its 60". I recently flew on the new a/c in First back from HKG. Luckily we were only 4 pax, i didnt even want to think about how it would have been with 12 pax! The food was good, but i think its unexceptable to serve the food on trays. I dont care that thats the only way they can serve the window pax - then they should either call the service BUSINESS class or increase the pitch!
4. I hope everyone know and realizes that the seat in First is almost the same exact seat as in the Business Class. The difference lies in the pitch and a little bit in the width. The LY First Class seat is usually used by airlines that have 6 across in Business (mostly in A340's) What really annoyed me was that EL AL makes the "BIG NOISE" on how these new 772 have the latest and most sophistacted technology and produst when actually its not so. The AVOD is new - ok. The mood lighting is relatively new - but hardly anyone in LY knows how to properly use it.
BUT the seats!! - Those seats have been around for a few years:
1. South African's Business class in the A340 is the same seats as LY has now in First. It was introduced over 3 years ago. http://www.flatseats.com/Gallery/SA-J-1.htm
2. Finnair's Business is same as new LY Business but was introduced over 2 years ago http://www.flatseats.com/Product/new...air-050106.htm
3. Austian's business is same as new LY buisness Also from over a year ago http://www.flatseats.com/Gallery/OS-5.htm
4. Iberia's Business is the LY First Class seat but with a little less pitch than LY's first.
5. The only airline that uses the same LY First seats in First is AIR MAURITIUS, but they have 80". And it was introduced over a year ago as well. http://www.flatseats.com/Product/news-mau01Jan.htm
I would hardly call these seats the latest and best!
Programs: EL AL Matmid Platinum, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by ly787
3.Pitch in First is about 72". In Business its 60". I recently flew on the new a/c in First back from HKG. Luckily we were only 4 pax, i didnt even want to think about how it would have been with 12 pax! The food was good, but i think its unexceptable to serve the food on trays. I dont care that thats the only way they can serve the window pax - then they should either call the service BUSINESS class or increase the pitch!
They claim that the tray service has nothing to do with the difficulty of serving the window seats, but was an independent decision based on 'customer feedback'. It would seem that some of their most regular F passengers don't care much for having a restaurant style meal but would rather have something quick and go to sleep. That is why they went over to the tray service. I think the decision is terribly flawed (especially as most of the serious airlines have now abandoned tray service even in business class!). I find it quite awful to be honest, however good the food is (and from London it really is pretty good nowadays).
Programs: EL AL Matmid Platinum, Virgin Flying Club Red
Posts: 438
Apart from the already mentioned hopeless online schedule, which cannot even tell you what aircraft will fly on any particular day (and the information IS available elsewhere) the schedule itself will not work on Firefox at all. I have never encountered ANY other airline website anywhere which will only work on Internet Explorer. Just which idiots are 'developing' the software for EL AL?
