soliloquy

This is the cut and paste of my report. When I originally typed it, it was broken into paragraphs but I guess the automated system took the paragraphs out in sending me a copy of my report.

I purchased tickets for a flight on 4 January 2017 which is schedule to depart @. That same evening after purchasing the tickets, I realized I needed to cancel the flight. I called the customer service number (Res: 1 (800) 223-6700). I was told by automated message that the offices were closed and that I was being forwarded to another centralized customer service number. When I was transferred, that centralized customer service number stated that they could only help customers whose flights were departing in the next 24 hours or words to that effect. No one with El Al at this customer service center was able to assist me with a cancellation. I then tried to call in the morning (Jan 5) before I left to go to work. I work 9AM-5PM EST, so I called before that. No one was available to take my call and again my call was forwarded to a centralized service number. I tried again when I came home (around 6PM on Jan. 5) and received the same message. I started to wonder if US based El Al customer service would ever answer the phone. By 8:50 PM that evening, I was beyond my 24-hour window to cancel my flight even though I had attempted to call on various occasions. After several more attempts, I finally asked my employer if I could call during work hours (the following Wednesday) to see if I could figure out why I couldn't get anyone to answer the phone. I was able to speak with someone Jan. 9 (this could have been Jan. 11, but I'm pretty sure it was Jan. 9) who informed me that because I was beyond my 24-hour window, I would have to pay a $250.00 cancellation fee per ticket for 3 tickets. She told me that I should have called during regular business hours which she told me were between 9AM-5PM Mon - Thurs and 9AM-4:45PM on Fridays. El Al is apparently closed on weekends. Unfortunately, business hours are not set forth on El Al's website. If I had known that El Al is only open during the hours I'm supposed to be working, I would have asked my employer for time to call that next day on Jan. 5. I went beyond my 24 hour window of opportunity to cancel because I was not aware that I had to call between 9AM-5PM. I am now making a simple request. I understand that I cannot get anyone to help me cancel the flight without the $250.00 penalty per ticket. I simply request that at least on the USA website, EL AL be required to list business hours plainly so that when people need to call, they know the hours are limited (in comparison with other airlines that are open 24 hours per day.) It would also be helpful for EL AL to state business hours on their automated line before transferring customers during non-business hours. It is entirely disingenuous to state that you have 24 hours to cancel your flight without penalty and then make it virtually impossible to reach someone within that time period. Under their current business hours, you really have 8 hours to cancel (depending upon when you purchase) and not 24 since they are only open 8 hours per day. This will help future customers. Thank you.

soliloquy

Response:

U.S. Department of
Transportation
GENERAL COUNSEL
1200 New Jersey Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20590
Office of the Secretary
of Transportation
January 17, 2017

@

Case No. @

Dear Ms. @l:

This responds to your communication regarding El Al Israel. The U.S. Department of Transportation seeks to ensure that all airline passengers are treated fairly. Complaints from consumers are helpful to us in determining whether the airlines are in compliance with our rules and to track trends or spot areas of concern that warrant further action.

Based on the information you have provided, your complaint appears to fall under the Department's rules. We will forward your complaint to the airline and ask the company to respond directly to you with a copy to us. Airlines are required to acknowledge receipt of a consumer complaint within 30 days and provide a substantive response to the complainant within 60 days. We will review the airline's response. If you need to contact our analyst assigned to your case, you may leave a telephone message on our Aviation Consumer line, 202-366-2220, or send an email to [email protected]. Please include your name and case number (see above). We will make every effort to reply to your message within one business day.

If our review of your complaint and the response from the company discloses a potential violation of our rules, we may pursue enforcement action. Generally, we pursue enforcement action on the basis of a number of complaints which may indicate a pattern or practice of violating our rules. Your complaint may be among those considered and may lead to appropriate enforcement action including the assessment of civil penalties. However, we have no authority to order compensation for individual complainants.

We have entered your complaint in our computerized industry monitoring system, and it will be counted among the number of complaints filed against this airline in our monthly Air Travel Consumer Report. This report allows consumers and air travel companies to compare the complaint records of individual airlines and tour operators. The data in this report also serve as a basis for rulemaking, legislation and research. Consumer information for air travelers, including the Air Travel Consumer Report and our pamphlet Fly-Rights, a Consumer's Guide to Air Travel, can be found on our website, www.dot.gov/airconsumer. Thank you for taking the time to contact us.


Sincerely,





@
Director, Aviation Consumer Protection Division
Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings

Has anyone else had trouble with this?

yosithezet

I haven't had this situation, but please do keep us appraised of how it goes. Will be very interesting and I hope you get the fee waived.

ajeleonard

It's sort of ironic that they don't list US business hours on their site, but they do have DOT's contact details

soliloquy

I will keep you informed.

I am disputing the entire thing with my credit card company. We'll see how it goes. I don't mind the 24 hours restriction but not when they aren't really making themselves available for those 24 hours.

I am kind of nervous because I really want to purchase tickets on DELTA at this point, but not sure if I should - in case CC company doesn't rule in my favor.

Yoshi212

While I actually do agree that you do deserve a refund because you did try to cancel twice within the 24 hour period there are things you could have done to be more proactive since canceling is such a priority. Waiting until the following Wednesday to call during business hours doesn't make sense. What happened between 6pm on Thursday until Wednesday during business hours?

To assist in your claim against ELAL use this from their website: "Whom should we notify about canceling the flight?
The Telephone Service Center is available 24 hours a day and deals with flight ticket cancelations as well as other matters."
The people you did speak with during the 24 hour period were not able to assist you with said cancelation so they violated the C.O.C.

soliloquy

That's a fair question.

Without giving up all of my personal business, those days I was involved with a project at work and could not call during their regular business hours - no not even during lunch time because it was a working lunch. My job is such that on some days, I am unable to excuse myself to make personal calls until after work hours. I did try to call on the weekend (Sat/Sun) but they were closed during those times frames as well. Had I known their hours were limited, I would have asked for permission to excuse myself, but given the nature of my job - that is not something I'd ask unless I knew that was the ONLY time I could reach them.

Ditto

While I agree LY should advertise their working hours on their website, I think expecting their US office to be open 24x7 is not realistic, they do have a 24x7 number obviously, but as you said they refused to help you.

For the future, I think you could have done one out of 2:
1. Call their reservation in Israel, they would have worked both on the 5th of Jan before you left for work and on Sunday during your morning hours

2. e-mail them, or contact them via their website, this could have been done easily within the 24 hours and would have possibly made things easier for you, even should they have not reply to your e-mail within a timely manner.

soliloquy

1. The New York number is transferred to Israel as far as I understand - that's when they say they cannot help you unless you are flying within 24 hours.

2.

Here's the email response:

Customer Relations <[email protected]>

to me







אנו מודים לך על הפניה.

לאור עומס חריג, אנו מתנצלים מראש על זמני מענה ארוכים מהרגיל.
מודים על סבלנותכם.

במידה וברצונך לברר פרטים לגבי ביטול \שינוי טיסה עתידית, אנא פנה למוקד השרות בטלפון:03-9771111
להזמנות עתידיות שבוצעו ע"י סוכן הנסיעות יש לפנות אל סוכן הנסיעות .

הודעה זו נשלחה באמצעות מענה אוטומטי ממוחשב

Thank you for contacting El Al Israel Airlines.
We are currently experiencing an unusually high volume of correspondence, and as a result our response time is longer than usual. We apologize in advance and appreciate your patience.

For inquiries regarding upcoming flights (changes, cancellations, requests, etc.) please contact our Service Center at +972-3-9771111. If you booked your flight via a travel agency, please contact the travel agent.


This message was sent by Auto Reply system


I have yet to hear from them.

Some of this I realize, of course. Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think they MUST be open 24 hours, but if they are not, they should certainly provide business hours.

soliloquy

Pardon my ignorance, but what is C.O.C in this context?

Yoshi212

Contract of Carriage. Or as ElAL calls it, "General Condition of Carriage."

Ditto

So just trying to establish what happened here -
- Was your e-mail to them sent within the 24hrs window requesting them to cancel the flight?
- Did you by any chance tried to call the Service Center at the number they provided in their auto-reply? (I wonder if it is the same as what the NY number forward to)

yosithezet

I don't think you are likely to get help from the credit card company. The policy violated is that of the US DOT and the credit card company won't make a decision based on US DOT regulations but rather on their contract with EL AL, which it doesn't seem EL AL violated.

soliloquy

No, it was outside of the 24 hours but before I actually got someone in NY on the phone. Regardless, you never get a response - they still have not responded to this day.

No, I did not call the number. It would have been a 100.00 phone call as long as I had to wait on the line. That's what the 800 number is supposed to be for - to prevent those toll calls. I assumed (perhaps in error) that they went to the same place. The company I work for has a 800 number for people who are not in our area to call rather than racking up long distance or intl charges. I assumed it was the same with them since their number shows up right above the 800 number.

soliloquy

I spoke with a dispute specialist for over an hour. She said this isn't your typical black and white case but if I could provide phone logs where I attempted to cancel, she thought I had a good chance of being successful since they had not yet provided any services. I realize on these type of forums, there will always be people analyzing the situation and people who will try to bring a reality check to the situation. I get that.

Nonetheless, she was very patient and told me to email my phone logs to them. She also called EL AL (after hours) so that she could hear the message herself as far as being transferred without any business hours being provided. She also checked the website herself to see if she could locate office hours. At the end, she gave me a provisional credit. I don't know if that will work long term, but worst case scenario, I have to pay the $750.00 and have the rest refunded. That's a small price to pay not to have to deal with EL AL and all the issues they are having...last thing I need is pilots on strike while I'm trying to travel among the many other things I didn't know until I started looking at reviews.