Dovster

You, however, do not have a religious requirement -- and they do. I see nothing wrong with an airline taking that into consideration, in fact, most airlines do and serve kosher meals on long haul flights.

Ditto

But serving Kosher meal to an ultra-orthodox (or to a non-Jew even) doesn't hurt me as a passenger on the same flight.
If the airline have to move seats, and they prioritise someone based on their religion - then I have a problem with that.

MSPeconomist

I perceive a difference between wanting to sit with people one knows (on same PNR or not, regardless of whether it's family, parent/kid, engaged couple, or friends and colleagues) and wanting not to sit next to someone (again, for whatever reason, religion, race, national origin, gender, age, attractiveness, size, etc.). The latter is potentially offensive and/or discriminatory.

However, regardless of whether it's the first or second category, if someone is trying to re-arrange seating at his/her own initiative, the person wanting the change should be the one who is inconvienced by either getting a worse (according to someone's own preferences as there's no objective standard to which everyone would agree) seat or by being inconvenienced by the move itself. IMO each person has a right to keep their own assigned seat, so that it's the initiator's problem to induce them to move by either offering a more preferred seat or giving a bribe.

awayIgo

There is no religious law that says a man can't sit next to a women. If someone wants to be especially stringent, that is their privilege. Maybe there should be an EL Al version of Cruise Critic's roll call, then they can find other Orthodox men and pre-arrange seats together.

As a female, I do not feel like I am a second class citizen if asked to move. WHEN I flew economy, if asked and IF the seat was comprable I switched. If it was NOT, I didn't. Simple as that. I DO feel the Israeli Supreme Court voted on this because it is an activist court with its' own agenda.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Dovster

awayIgo, although I am a fairly secular Jewish man (raised as Reform), I tend to see this the same way that you do.

I remember reading an article in the Jeruslam Post several years ago saying that the Haredi are the single most disliked group in Israel (considerably more disliked than Israeli Arabs). While I have a number of Arab friends, I am not close to even one Ultra-Orthodox Jew.

That said, I do not dislike them nor wish them any problems. If anything, I feel sorry for them. Their religious beliefs put a very heavy burden on them. I would hate to feel that I have to dress in long, black, clothing in the Israeli summer, be highly restricted in what I can eat (and have to rely on a particular rabbi to authorize it), pray numerous times each day at specified times, or be concerned lest I accidentally brush my arm against that of a woman sitting next to me on a plane or a bus.

awayIgo

Dovster,

I AM an Orthodox women, although not Hareidi. I do have Haredimfriends, but not those who,I would call " crazy". Unfortunately I totally understand the feelings of many in Israel. My non-Orthodox father used to see things very simply. Good Haredi = serve in the a my, Bad Haredi= do not!

Don't feel sorry for them. Those long black coats, in the summer, are made of the lightest material you imagine. I wear long sleeves and could with little effort push my pointed fingernail through my blouse, that is how thin it is! AND in Israel, earring for most-- isn't that hard today. Go back 20-25 years and it was. Any do not go out because a. With huge families, they have no money and B they don't want to risk seeing people who,are possibly inappropriately dressed.

WalterSFO

I don't get how El Al thinks sometimes.

Why would it have taken a court decision to resolve something that is just common sense? The person who doesn't not want to sit to a woman should be the one who moves... not the woman.

craz

While I understand that a charedi male wont want to sit next to a woman that isnt an immediate family member. No way should anyone be told and not asked if they will switch seats. If the person who doesnt want to sit in their assigned seat cant be switched then its that person that s/b be off loaded.

Theres nothing wrong with any crew member or ground staff asking someone to switch seats, unless theres a weight and balance issue or a person was assigned a seat that is used for say a handi-cap person or needs bulkhead for a bassinet etc, no way should they be forced to move or be told if you dont you will be removed from the flight

Im asked constantly by other passengers and crew to move and I always answer, no problem as long as the other seat is equal or better than what I have(it usually isnt since I book so far out and know what seat I can grab when I book). I have more fingers on 1 hand then times Ive moved, since the new seat is usually way below what I have. If the flight is say and hour or so then I will probably switch as long as its not a middle seat or a non-reclining row, any flight over 90 mins I aint moving if its a vol basis. Now with the carriers making less pitch bet the rows Im likely not to give up an aisle seat my preference so I can angle a leg into the aisle

joshwex90

Neither do I, nor do I know of a religious requirement that says that a man and woman can't sit next to each other. But that doesn't mean people don't complain about it.

They'd be "exempt" no different than whenever someone books an extra seat on any other airline, that seat is guaranteed to be next to you.

Ditto

That's fine, my issue is with the 3 seating together scenario.

dand99

+1.

FAs ask pax if they are willing to move. Happens all the time. The issue of "sexism" is IMO ultra-activist pandering to extreme liberalism.

Admittedly, very easy to solve - FAs could try to find the man alternative seating every time (which is probably what will happen in light of the court case).

I'm waiting for an orthodox woman to request the man next to her move (happened to me once long time ago) and have the man sue El Al for sexism.

Dovster

I could make a fortune with this. Every woman I have ever sat next to on a flight asked me to move. This includes my girlfriend and my daughter.

hnussbacher

This reminds me of the Jewish joke:

Ultra religious guest invited to wedding: "Will there be separate seating"?
Religious father of the bride: "Yes, every person will have their own seat"

[For those who are unfamiliar with Jewish ultra orthodox weddings, there are usually separate tables for men and women with a tall divider in between so one cannot look at the other side]

NYTA

I was once asked by an orthodox woman to move on a TK flight from IST to TLV in Business class and I refused. She ended up staying in her same seat.

awayIgo

I just reread the original article. According to that the woman was ASKED, not ordered to move. SHE moved on her own. After she felt cheated and hurt and picked on etc. etc. This whole thing was a test case ( and the article says that) looking for an incident.