nombody

Can someone explain El Al's business model with their Economy Plus seats? It doesnt seem like it's there to generate more revenue. If they wanted to make money with it, they would actually sell the Economy Plus seats to any passenger with a booking at any time.

Instead, the way it works now, is you put in your "request" for an Economy Plus seat, and if the TPLs, PLs, and Golds havent grabbed them all up by 24 hours before the flight, then you get the chance to maybe buy an Economy Plus seat.

Compare that to either Delta or United, and while they both give their top Elites the opportunity to take the Premium economy seats for free, they also allow anyone to buy one of those seats at any time after booking the reservation.

My parents who come once or twice a year to Israel, were going to book on El Al, but when they found out they couldn't get a guaranteed Economy Plus seat at the same time they made the booking, they changed their mind and went with Delta - for a more expensive flight.

ELY001

There are many things about the way that EL AL is run and the company's business decisions that are difficult to explain rationally.

ehartal

Maybe because they do not fly planes for more than 24 hours and Friday is when business travelers return back home, EL AL has to throw in something and it is to reward its most valuable passengers.

ELY001

Their no fly rule on Shabbat has a negligible effect on their bottom line, primarly because if they did fly on Shabbat their largest passenger base, the Hardeim, would no longer fly the airline. Consequently, any gains from flying on Shabbat would be lost when their largest passenger base, in all classes, bolt and boycott the company.

ehartal

I am not working in LY hence not sure whether you are right or wrong. But best customer for airline on USA and Asia routes are business customer. Customers flying to the silicon valley have no reason whatsoever to fly EL AL where they need to cut their workday short.

Haredim are mainly leisure travellers. And for those who keep Kashrut ELAL is far better than any other airline serving Israel

ELY001

You are correct that in theory the best customer for EL AL, or any other airline for that matter, are business pax. You are also correct that the vast majority of business pax have no reason to fly LY given their limited ff program, sub par hard product, lack of alliance membership/extensive code share agreement, and even price.

However, where you are not correct is in assuming that Haredim are mainly leisure travelers. Some of EL AL's highest grossing pax are Haredim. Should EL AL fly on Shabbat those pax will bolt. It's been tried before during Haim Romano's tenure as CEO and the airline had to reaffirm its commitment to grounding the fleet on Shabbat and other Jewish holidays.

joshwex90

Why would you assume any of the following points:

1. Business customers are mainly Silicon Valley flyers
2. Haredim are mainly leisure travelers
3. For those who keep Kosher, LY is far better than any other airline

My responses

1. Business travelers come in all different stripes, including tech, finance, fundraising, sales, medical, etc. This also refers to tons of different geographic areas in the USA, especially NYC
2. There are tons of Haredi business travelers, a number of whom post on this board. I frequently sit next to Haredim in C (mostly LY, but also UA) who are traveling for business
3. That highly depends. But when anyways ordering the Mehadrin meal, both the food and the experience is no different than when ordering KSML on OALs

mikebg

I disagree! I have recently moved from LY to BA. The meals I get on BA from London are incomparably better than those I had on EL AL. The meals from TLV are pretty much the same standard as those on EL AL. The only thing I miss from EL AL is the wine, but BA has a better selection of other drinks than EL AL.

I should also add that even for premium business travellers the price is (or should be) a factor. When BA's business class return TLV-LHR-TLV is $600 less than EL AL's (or even $200 if you need to get a more expensive ticket) and the hard product is far better there really shouldn't be any question as to which airline is better. Oh yes, I should add that those are 12% discounted EL AL tickets when purchasing a 'kartisiya' with 11-20 tickets.

lev441

Why would they stop flying the airline if they starting flying on saturdays? Surely thats not the only reason haredim fly el al?

I've seen plenty on easyjet/BA flights to & from london...

joshwex90

Yes, Haredim fly other airlines. And correct, LY not flying on Shabbat isn't the only reason Haredim fly LY.

But that's neither here nor there. ELY001 simply said that if LY flew on Shabbat, the amount of business they would lose from Haredim refusing to fly them would outweigh any additional business they would get from an extra day of flying. And having seen some projections, he's almost definitely correct, and it's not even close.

entropy

One would think that the Haredim would be able to figure out some sort of loophole that temporarily transfers ownership of the airline to non-Jews. I was in Paris a few weeks ago and was surprised to see Hechsher'd restaurants open and selling food in the marais.

lev441

But my question is why would they boycott el al? Because it is a 'jewish' airline? Does anyone know if this would happen for sure?

joshwex90

Because it's not necessarily the halacha at play but rather the principle, it'd be harder to find a loophole

Exactly. The idea being not to support a Jewish-owned business that violates the Sabbath so publicly

Indelaware

"Economy Plus" is a registered trade mark of United Airlines. Neither El Al nor any other airline has "Economy Plus".

nombody

El Al calls it "Economy Class Plus"
http://www.elal.com/en/PassengersInf...lass-Plus.aspx

Should we call in the lawyers?