Last edit by: gordo6
UP - summary of the new offerings
UP will start its offering from 30 March 2014, offering 50 weekly flights to:
Fare Structure
UP will offer two kinds of fare:
Services offered by UP
Most info taken from: http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/Hebrew/Ab..._UP_261113.htm. If anyone has anything to add - please feel free to do so.
UP will start its offering from 30 March 2014, offering 50 weekly flights to:
- BUD - starting $69 (promotion price), otherwise from $99; operating 11 weekly.
- PRG - starting $69 (promotion price), otherwise from $99; operating 11 weekly.
- LCA - starting $99 (promotion price), otherwise from $139; operating 6 weekly.
- KBP - starting $99 (promotion price), otherwise from $175; operating 11 weekly.
- SXF - starting $99 (promotion price), otherwise from $199; operating 11 weekly.
Fare Structure
UP will offer two kinds of fare:
- UP basic - a basic ticket (seat only) allowing to add extra payed services, such as - upgrade to Y+/preferred seating, luggage, seating, check-in, etc. Non cancelable and changeable for a fee.
- UP smart - includes advanced seating, free Y+/preferred seating (based on availability), free check-in and lounge. Fully refundable and changeable. GLs and above get all perks of it even when purchasing a basic fare.
Services offered by UP
- Luggage - for UP basic customers, each bag up to 20KG costs $20 one way ($40 at the airport). UP smart, GLs, PLs receive one free bag. TPLs receive 2.
- Lounge - free of charge for UP smart customers, as well as GLs and above. TPLs are the only ones who will be allowed a guest.
- Advanced seating - for the charge of $10 one way ($50 for preferred seating or $80 for Y+). Smart passengers and GLs and above get all for free, SLs get regular advanced seating for free.
- Check in - free at all times for smart passengers and GLs and above. Otherwise it costs $10 to check in at the airport (kiosk checkin is free of charge). Online checkin will be allowed 24 to 4 hours before the flights, and seat assignment will only be given at the gate, unless advanced seating was done. When checking in at the counter one can select seats free of change.
- Y+ - includes extra 4" pitch (34" vs 30"), pillow, blanket, headphones, food, drinks and amenity kit. Only those seated in Y+ are eligible for this service, and as a result, smart passengers (as well as GLs and above) who won't seat there won't receive these services. 36 Y+ and 144 Y seats will be offered onboard every B738s in UPs service.
Most info taken from: http://www.elal.co.il/ELAL/Hebrew/Ab..._UP_261113.htm. If anyone has anything to add - please feel free to do so.
EL AL to launch low-cost flights to Europe
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
EL AL to launch low-cost flights to Europe
From Globes
Basically, they'll have low-cost flights to some European destinations, which will be similar to competition - base fare with lots of ancillary fees. Except the tickets will also be sold by travel agents, will be marketed along with regular flights online, and by regular LY planes.
I disagree with this. Good for them to compete, but they dilute the airline and cause confusion. If you want low-cost service, don't simply make some flights one way and some the other. Sounds too similar to their failed "Basic" fares to Europe.
Basically, they'll have low-cost flights to some European destinations, which will be similar to competition - base fare with lots of ancillary fees. Except the tickets will also be sold by travel agents, will be marketed along with regular flights online, and by regular LY planes.
I disagree with this. Good for them to compete, but they dilute the airline and cause confusion. If you want low-cost service, don't simply make some flights one way and some the other. Sounds too similar to their failed "Basic" fares to Europe.
#2
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC Area
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 1,312
From GlobesI disagree with this. Good for them to compete, but they dilute the airline and cause confusion. If you want low-cost service, don't simply make some flights one way and some the other. Sounds too similar to their failed "Basic" fares to Europe.
Apparently, EL AL wants to start low cost flights to Europe without trimming their cost structure significantly on those flights. Tickets will still be sold through travel agents, the airline will still be subject to Israel airline regulations pertaining to compensation for cancellations and delays unlike foreign LCC's (as per the article) and the flights will depart from the more expensive terminal 3 and not the cheaper new LCC area of terminal 1. The article can be found here:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/glob...did=1000891957
So basically, EL AL is offering cheaper flights for consumers without a corresponding reduction in cost to itself similar to LCC ops. My concern is that these flights will be completely unprofitable because yields will drop but operating expenses will remain high.
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,760
Who says yields will drop? They can offer slightly lower base pricing and charge for all the ancillary stuff. The net effect is higher all-in pricing.
If they're actually going to dedicate a sub fleet to this 'project', they're going to probably eliminate C, and then pack in high-density seating. LY has 142 seats in their 738's. AB has 186.
If they're actually going to dedicate a sub fleet to this 'project', they're going to probably eliminate C, and then pack in high-density seating. LY has 142 seats in their 738's. AB has 186.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Which is exactly why I don't understand why they didn't create an LCC division, such as re-marketing Sun D'Or Airlines as such. Have them depart exclusively from T1 with a different structure entirely.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Diamond Elite Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 12,948
I don't get it, what's the difference between this and the "Basic" fares they used to offer?
Just sounds stupid to me...
Just sounds stupid to me...
#6
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: UA 1K; LY Gold; DL Gold; BA Bronze
Posts: 2,266
Israeli airlines are not allowed to use T1 for international departures. Weird, I know, but I think they do that to all more space for future new services by foreign low cost airlines.
#7
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC Area
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 1,312
The potential does exist for high density, all Y seating to generate more income per flight then the current layout with "C" does now, however in an inherently yield deflationary situation you need to reduce costs, which is what EL AL is NOT doing. What they are doing, is trying to compete with LCC's on price and service, however if they are to be successful, they will have to reduce costs on these ops in a manner similar to what most LCC's do otherwise this venture will not be profitable.
#8
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC Area
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 1,312
This may be one of the rare moments you and I agree. I believe that is what it would take to make this venture profitable. They need to not only replicate the fares and services of an LCC, but the cost structure as well.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Diamond Elite Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 12,948
Will be interesting to compare the prices as they are at the moment to these destinations and once they become "low cost"...
#11
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: BA,LH,LY,OK
Posts: 362
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Diamond Elite Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 12,948
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Why are European LCCs exempt from Israeli protection laws? US airlines in Europe are still liable under EU protection laws
Sorry - that's the impression I got from the article. "Basic" was cheap fares on regular flights. The new service will be whole flights acting as LCC. Still seems like recipe for faiure
To answer my own question (since no one else did...) I only just realised they are going to stop full service flights to these destinations entirely, so indeed different to the "basic" flights.
Will be interesting to compare the prices as they are at the moment to these destinations and once they become "low cost"...
Will be interesting to compare the prices as they are at the moment to these destinations and once they become "low cost"...
#14
Join Date: Dec 2008
Programs: UA 1K; LY Gold; DL Gold; BA Bronze
Posts: 2,266
1. Tibi law - which talks about delays/cancellations/etc of flights and is actually parallel to EU261/04.
2. Israeli customer protection law - which only applies to companies that reside or have a branch in Israel (not only to airlines) - and allows cancellation of all phone/internet made transactions for a minimal fee (100 nis/5% of the price based on the most expensive of those) 14 days after making them.
All airlines operating to/from Israel are subject to Tibi law. However, the Israeli customer protection law only applies to airlines which have offices in Israel - and that's why (some?) low-cost airlines are exempt from this law only.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
What exactly is the customer protection law? It allows cancellations up until 14 days before the flight, up until 14 days after the booking...? And would it apply to an airline like UA?
Also, why can't LY use T1 for their LCC operation? Didn't they just finish an expansion of the departure hall and area?
Also, why can't LY use T1 for their LCC operation? Didn't they just finish an expansion of the departure hall and area?