ELY001

Why do you suppose it does not make sense to have connecting traffic through JFK?

As far as your assertion that nobody is going to let EL AL into an alliance, I believe, in it's current state, that is true. However, with some internal improvements (tech, hard products, etc) coupled with external improvements, such as an east Mediterranean route network, EL AL could get into an alliance.

Without delving extensively into politics, the inherent political and social instability of Israel's neighboring states pose an opportunity for EL AL to get into an alliance, particularly when those states and their national airlines collapse.

baccarat_king

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned,

But, all international arrivals at Boston-Logan come into Terminal E. B6 is in Terminal C, which requires leaving the terminal and bussing over to Terminal C and going through security (again). [I guess, you could also walk, but it's far from convenient, IMO]

It's really lousy connecting in Boston, coming off of an international flight. Even Delta international arrivals (at Terminal E) from LHR and AMS, require you to schlep all they way back over to Terminal A (and go through security) for your domestic Delta flights.

IMO, the only time it was convenient, is when Northwest had all of their operations in Terminal E, and you could easily connect from international to domestic flights in Terminal E (Northwest to Northwest).

adambisi

Its just as bad to have to connect in JFK or ORD and switching terminals while waiting for a sometimes crowding airport train. From what I've heard CDG is no picnic as an international example.

They are building a C to E airside connector for the sole purpose of B6 being able to connect with its one way codeshare partners (In BOS - LH, JL, EI) and airlines it has interline agreements with (VS, FI and in the future TK).

ELY001

The last 2 posts highlight exactly why BOS would only work if there is a strong O&D market, which I doubt there is, at least not one large enough to fill 2-3 weekly flights on long haul medium size a/c.

As far as connections go, American airports in the northeast are notoriously lousy and outdated. Hence, it makes little difference whether the connection is at BOS or JFK. Given that LY has a large presence and infrastructure at JFK, it makes more sense to connect through there, then it does to expend large sums of capital to replicate a smaller connecting infrastructure in BOS to make the route work financially for the benefit of a minority of pax that would be O&D in that market.

adambisi

No one has mentioned O+D yet so here it is.

2011 -54,702 passengers traveled (via 1-stop or 2-stop) BOS-TLV or vice versa. That comes out to 75 PDEW. It is over 500 passengers per week so if you captured 100 percent of the market you could easily fill 2 weekly flights on an El Al 767. There would obviously be some market stimulation as well.

In comparison, New York City (both EWR and JFK combined) has 1250 PDEW. The market is immense. Believe it or not, TLV is the #1 connecting destination on Turkish Airlines' JFK flights and I'm sure it ranks high for LH and BA as well.

MIA, ORD and SFO are also bigger markets to TLV. It makes me wonder if there are people trekking to JFK and EWR from BOS on bus or train first (especially big tour groups etc.) which results in those people counting for JFK-TLV traffic.

Dieuwer

Seasonal BOS-TLV flights might work.

ELY001

Thanks for the pax stats between BOS and TLV.

There is absolutely no way in it's current form EL AL would capture 100% of this market to fill 2 non-stops on 763's per week. In fact, I doubt LY would be able to capture 50% of this market. A large portion of these pax travel for business to Israel. Their corporate departments have deals with alliance member airlines that EL AL simply could not beat or come close to matching at this time because of their lack of alliance membership (or even extensive codeshare members). Also the 763 is a highly inefficient and gas guzzling a/c. That coupled with EL AL's high cost structure would likely make this route unprofitable. If EL AL gets into an alliance, reduces its cost structure, and gets a mid size fuel efficient a/c (B787 or A330) then they have a chance at making this route work.

As far as TLV being TK's number 1 connecting destination for JFK flights, I am not surprised. TK is focusing on TLV and is literally trying to drive LY out of business. They are taking LY's business and leisure pax by offering unbeatable fares and a great hard product. In addition their membership in Star Alliance gives pax unparalleled accumulation and redemption benefits. I am not blaming TK for this situation. Their leadership sees a market opportunity and are going for it. I am disappointed that EL AL's management and current majority owners have allowed this situation to take place without making any viable attempts at retaining their pax base.

NYTA

Where do you get those stats?

joshwex90

First off all, it doesn't matter whether you need to schlep to other terminals or not. In the USA, all incoming international pax (accept those with pre-clearance) must re-clear security (after immigration).

Second, with 2 weekly flights, they would absolutely NOT capture 100% of the market. If I'm a businessman who needs to get to Boston, I can fly via EWR/JFK today or I can wait 2 days until the next direct flight. I'm flying today, not waiting

ELY001

Exactly!!!

According to the stats provided, only 75 pax per day (100% of the market) fly BOS-TLV. Based on deductive reasoning we can surmise that at least 1/3 to 1/2 of those pax must fly on specific dates for whatever reason. So, having a twice weekly non stop flight, even if EL AL could capture the market, would not work unless they can fly a regional jet on the route

Which brings us back to the original point. The BOS-TLV route non stop will not work unless EL AL is fed a whole lot of connecting pax. Enabling so would require a large investment in infrastructure for EL AL to make in BOS all for 2-3 per week flights on medium size a/c (for EL AL it would be the gas guzzling 763's). This makes absolutely no financial sense.

What EL AL should do is focus on how to get some of those 75 pax per day flying BOS-TLV to connect through JFK instead of Europe.

joshwex90

I'm sure a number of them do already. They have a tight relationship with AA as it is - they should really work that relationship and incentivize it. In addition, they had signed an interline agreement with B6 a while back - they should look to build on that as well

ELY001

I agree. The problem is that the NY office is run by a person whom I found lacks basic knowledge of the airline industry and international business. The NY office needs to be filled with people who can do exactly what you said.

HumbleBee

Exactly.

The stats don't mention how many of the 75 already fly LY via NYC.

Another thing to keep in mind is that at a certain price point they can always fill BOSTLV flights with NYC pax trying to save a buck. Although ORD/MIA can do achieve that too, BOS is better posed for that.

Obviously you need a very efficient airline to make money at very low price points. So far only Emirates and the like have managed that business model.

adambisi

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

They bought 2011 MIDT data for a study and published the top 200 international destinations for the top metro market in the USA.

Dieuwer

From Boston, more people traveled to...Aruba than to Amsterdam or India??? Am I supposed to believe that??