orbitmic

It's really great. To be honest, it's most unlikely you would need to: the setting is of the type

U- U--U -U (odd rows) -U -UU- U- (even rows) so not only is it only 4 seats per row but you only get two seats next to each other every other row and more than enough travelling in pairs for them! The problem with Alitalia is that there back office is totally rubbish so when you have problems it is always a bit of a nightmare to have it fixed (it usually always is at the end but better have a good heart!). However, their in flight product is top level. Anyway, sorry for the OT, wish LY would poach, AZ's J product, I would fly them much more!

may_east

and with the promotion they had just 2 months ago (25% off) - you could have bought a round trip in biz class tlv-fco-jfk for 2100$ ! ! a steal.

NYTA

Except that the TLV-FCO product is so horrible, including the bus rides to/from the plane that it's far worse than Easyjet.

clubman

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10A525 Safari/8536.25)

Do you mean bus rides at TLV?

NYTA

At FCO you have to walk down stairs, take the bus to the terminal and vice versa on all flights to/from TLV (on AZ - it's frustrating watching the LY pax get on the jetway at FCO at the gate next door). Last AZ flight I had FCO-TLV we had to take a bus to the terminal in TLV as well so I guess AZ is determined to save money by not paying for jetways. AZ is truly a 3rd world airline, unfortunately but they are often cheapest for me from TLV so I end up flying them more often than I'd like.

may_east

i would take the bus anyday, for a 2100$ Business class ticket to the US

orbitmic

Which part? The free catering? The much larger seat pitch? The entertainment? The lounge access? The free luggage? The fact that you can choose your seats? I'm not too sure which of the above is the worst part of AZ that makes it much worse than U2

NYTA

Let's compare:

If you factor in that the cost of an Easyjet ticket to, let's say, London, including speedy boarding (I get a window seat every time), a checked bag, and purchasing food and even coffee that is far superior to what I get for "free" on AZ is usually way lower than on AZ, and it's nonstop saving me hours, it's a no brainer to choose U2 over AZ if I'm going to one of their destinations in Europe. Entertainment? I don't think the "comedy" reels on the overhead screens of the AZ A320 counts as entertainment and the seat pitch is about the same. Seriously, even the coffee on Easyjet is way better than on Alitalia - and on Easyjet you can sometimes even get Pizza - che vergogna!

I get lounge access at TLV because of either Diner's or Priority Pass so I'm only sacrificing lack of a lounge at LTN.

I just did a random check on Kayak of a 2 day out and back trip from TLV-LON in January - $429 nonstop on Easyjet vs. the lowest "traditional" airline - Aegean, at $706 with a 17 hour travel time with a layover in ATH. I could buy myself a bottle of champagne and some caviar for my Easyjet flight, get there 12 hours before and still come out way ahead cash-wise. BA was $788 - that's a lot of caviar. I wish Easyjet flew to more destinations from TLV.

yosithezet

Folks,
Please note that this thread is about LY and alliances. Please stick to the topic.

Thanks,
yosithezet
Moderator, EL AL Forum

joshwex90

What Shkedy meant wasn't that others will reject LY for being Jewish; but rather that LY will be too picky about choosing who to join. That must be it

ELY001

It's often extremely difficult to decipher what 'Shkedy' is trying to convey when he utilizes the English language. Remember that infamous interview in English where he introduced the new Economy Plus service (which BTW I think is a mistake for LY to have)? There is a thread involving that infamous interview on this board. I showed the interview and thread (along with the comments by posters here) to Danny Saadon when I met with him in New York and he actually tried to convince me that Shkedy's English is good but he just couldn't find the words during the interview. I suppose he had to defend his boss even at the expense of making himself look ridiculous doing so.

AAerSTL

I disagree. LY is hindered in its ability to join a marketing alliance due to the political baggage associated with being the flag carrier of the only Jewish state. This could have implications when trying lure other Middle East carriers, who sadly will see this as a liability.

Furthermore, I think the nature of LY and their strategy if you will aren't especially complimentary to the purpose of a global airline alliance. Between the security procedures, route network from TLV to major Jewish & Israeli population centers around the world and difficulty transiting at TLV (it wasn't designed for this purpose) make it less attractive. The good news is with the category II restrictions behind they an once again codeshare with AA and hopefully re-instate MIA along with another gateway.

NYC2TLV

I personally believe that too much value is being placed on this idea of the alliances as a solution. El Al should invest in making the program more valuable by expanding reciprocal frequent flyer benefits and strategic code share agreements as follows:

Cathay Pacific (HKG)
Air China or Hainan or China Eastern or China Southern (PEK)
South African Airways (JNB) [existing]
LATAM (GRU/SCL)
American Airlines (JFK/LAX) [existing]
AeroMexico (MEX) [existing]
S7 Airlines (DME)
Swiss (ZRH)
Singapore Airlines (SIN)
Air India (BOM)
Qantas (SYD) [existing]
WestJet (YYZ)

This would help add to the value of the Matmid program. The issue is that this would cost money. These agreements don't just involve a free sale and marketing of each others flights, but the actual payment and sale of points/miles to other carriers. But if you look at the new models of the industry (QF/EK or AF/KL/EY or NZ/CX etc.) carriers are looking for strategic partners who will help fill their aircraft with higher yield passengers and not looking to be part of an alliance where they will cooperate with carriers that they may even directly compete against.

ELY001

AAerSTL,

The global aviation alliances are full of member airlines who hail from politically unstable countries and whose hubs weren't meant to serve as global transit points. In the wake of the "Arab Spring" nearly all of the Arab airline alliance members fall into the above category. So, the fact that EL AL and its TLV hub may or may not bring significant route/transit value to an alliance is not the main reason why EL AL is not an alliance member.

The real reason why LY is not an alliance member has to do with LY itself. Around 10 years ago when alliances were more or less in their infancy, LY was courted by the alliances however then CEO Amos Shapira decided against joining one. Though he was perhaps the best CEO EL AL ever had, Shapira nevertheless lacked the foresight to see the benefits of being in an alliance and forewent the opportunity because of the high costs associated in getting LY to harmonize its operations with what an alliance requires. By the time the Borovich family took control of the airline and Haim Romano became CEO the ability to enter an alliance became nearly impossible because the alliances grew in members to a point where all three had TLV covered and therefore did not need to have LY part of their networks nor wanted to deal with the security hassles associated with such.

ELY001

NYC2TLV,

The main drawback to expanding codeshare agreements is the lack of harmonization. When your airline is a member of an alliance, your benefits are harmonized throughout the system and you know what to expect. Having individual codeshare agreements inherently requires different rules for different agreements all of which will result in a lack of harmonization of benefits and confusion for the frequent flier. Therefore currently is no realistic or viable alternative to the alliance scheme.

With that said, I believe that EL AL could be inducted into an alliance. Doing so would require out of the box thinking and sort of pushing their way in. In the business plan I submitted to the board I highlight suggestions just how EL AL can and should go about doing so. I will, however, forgo making those ideas public in this forum for now.