razMJ

True, but top markets from TLV (UK, USA, France, Canada etc.) are already well served by alliance members.

Yes, Oneworld would be the best fit, but Oneworld don't want to rule out EY possibly joining them (EY says that they may join an alliance, probably OW or *A). *A also don't want to rule out any Gulf Carriers joining them, and SkyTeam is already written off with Middle East Airlines and Saudi Arabian. If ME, QR, GF, KU, WY, EK, EY and SV don't want to be in the same LHR terminal as LY then I don't see them wanting to be in the same alliance.

That's why when they need to expand in London, they become the only non low-cost airline at LTN (Instead of LGW)

I agree.

Yep, EL Al only operate to BOM, BKK, PEK and HKG, and only have limited codeshares from BKK. But otherwise, connections are okay.

Yes, there would be competition, but even if peace comes soon, normalisation of relations, trade and travel would take some time to come, and only then would those airlines operate.

GUWonder

I'd like to see LY become part of Oneworld, as it's probably the best fit for the airline if Royal Jordanian and British Airways doesn't make a fuss of it.

LY already operates from the same terminal as various other Middle Eastern airlines in some countries; and not all alliance members operate from the same terminal at all airports where more than one alliance member operates. So I don't see a terminal co-location issue being a major problem. The bigger hurdle will be if standing members of any of the big alliances are willing or unwilling to let LY in for far more narrow, immediate commercial self-interest reasons.

entropy

If there was true peace and EK was able to fly to TLV, LY would be burnt toast.

BATLV

I beg to differ. If it were possible TLV would have been able to become a real hub - with LY offering real connections, as TLV is positioned extremely well geographically, and if geopolitics and overflight restrictions were not an issue this location could be perfect ( at least as DXB or DOH) for connecting Europe with India, APAC and Africa.

That being said - they would still have to have competent management, which is not the case today.

yosithezet

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yosithezet
Moderator, El Al Forum

NYC2TLV

I don't think that LY management have the knowledge and experience of working on fares that aren't intended for the O&D market. If they had, then they would have had fares to JNB from NYC, AMS, LON, PAR etc. for the 2012 World Cup. They only offer connections in limited quantity on J-class/O-class from LON to BKK etc. If they were to create a real ladder of fares, perhaps they may fill up some planes during low season to/from TLV.

Jumpgate

I agree that if peace comes and relations normalize, LY is toast. It just can't compete with the fancy gulf airlines.

I agree that TLV has potential as a hub esp for connecting traffic from Europe to Africa & Asia. It also is more geographically logical to connect there from N. America to Africa that in Europe or the Gulf.

But TLV & LY would have to move fast.

The reality is that lack of peace in the Middle East has a side effect of protecting LY from a ton of competition and allowing it to become complacent in its way of doing business, treating its frequent flyers, and up keeping its fleet.

joshwex90

I don't know how much longer that will last. It's competition is now UA - the largest airline in the world, and part of the largest alliance, *A. UA is really working to improve the hard products, is already lie-flat, and may switch to a 3-cabin plane. They offer E+ which is extra legroom, and lots of them (70 seats or so) for about $100, and free for elites. They will be installing WiFi as well.
LH is upgrading C to lie-flat. LX is already there. LH may be installing WiFi, and LX may follow soon after. Factor in AC and US, and *A has a nice wide-body presences will solid carriers.
If you add the other airlines that are there, you can see that the competition is really upping its offerings and game, and is quite large. How much longer can LY last before becoming a competitive airline?

They do have some going for them: To the Far East, they're the only ones. For short-haul flights, they're the best, and pricing is that much off from the competition. Finally, you have a market, for sure in USA, and probably other places, that just won't fly anyone but LY. Some are deluded; some do it to support an Israeli company; some do it for security. Whatever the reason, some of those people can be convinced to switch; others not.

entropy

I would, but its more important to sleep well (and as long as LY has frayers who pay more and put up with a lousy hard product, what incentive do they have to improve)?

I'd be much happier supporting an Israeli company because they excel.

joshwex90

I agree with you 1000%. Unfortunately, not everyone else does. Or maybe they don't realize what a disservice they're doing to themselves (and others).

Jumpgate

I've also seen this phenomenon. A good friend of my parents' lives in Center City, Philadelphia. She has grandchildren in Zichron Yaakov so she makes regular trips to Israel.

She *always* makes the trek to EWR or JFK just to fly El Al even though there is a non-stop on US from PHL or easy one stops in Europe on BA/LH/AF. Her reasoning is "safety".

ByrdluvsAWACO

Through tighter integration with partners, LY could achieve the many of the same benefits of joining an alliance without having to satisfy all the alliance requirements.

Terminals - Move to partner terminals or terminals with a particular alliance presence.

Lounges - Contract to use partner lounges at LY destinations and partner hubs.

FFP - Arrange for deep reciprocal benefits between LY and partner programs.

joshwex90

They already have this with many partners

They have such a crappy program, they need to just restart the whole program entirely

ByrdluvsAWACO

Not really. In ORD they use AZ's lounge, JFK uses the Jet Air lounge, MIA-Club America, etc.

joshwex90

Meaning that you can almost always access a lounge, no matter what the airport