American Airlines checked my dignity at the gate
Apr 2, 2017, 3:05 am
#16
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
Agreed. There simply has to be much more to this story. This could certainly still mean that AA was in the wrong, but more information is needed in order to come to that conclusion.
I also don't get why the author ended his post without any more information about how the story resolved itself. He just says he was left on the gangway without his chair, quotes MLK jr. and ends the post.
I also don't get why the author ended his post without any more information about how the story resolved itself. He just says he was left on the gangway without his chair, quotes MLK jr. and ends the post.
https://mobilitymgmt.com/blogs/where...-airlines.aspx
Regardless, the only substantive piece missing is why was he deplaned. Unless you believe Mr. Smith is fabricating where and how he was left on the jetway, that part of the story alone is sufficient for sanctions against AA.
Apr 2, 2017, 12:01 pm
#17
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From the Managing Mobility article:
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
Apr 2, 2017, 12:19 pm
#18
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SFO
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Agreed. There simply has to be much more to this story. This could certainly still mean that AA was in the wrong, but more information is needed in order to come to that conclusion.
I also don't get why the author ended his post without any more information about how the story resolved itself. He just says he was left on the gangway without his chair, quotes MLK jr. and ends the post.
I also don't get why the author ended his post without any more information about how the story resolved itself. He just says he was left on the gangway without his chair, quotes MLK jr. and ends the post.
From the Managing Mobility article:
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
He has flown on AA before, so AA had clearly worked out the protocol and boarding process for him. No security issues as he was not questioned by TSA, so it wasn't his behavior or wheelchair.
Apr 2, 2017, 5:49 pm
#19
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posts: 283
What an appalling behavior by the airline here! Even if there WAS some mistake or 'reason' for the captain's order, they could have at least communicated this and made sure that the poor guy in his wheelchair is taken back to the boarding area. I'm just shocked to ready this 
Sounds like a few too many protocols were broken here (and a few too many staff members did not even display the most minimal courtesy to their customer) so I'd be keen to hear about what those internal investigations come up with.
Sounds like a few too many protocols were broken here (and a few too many staff members did not even display the most minimal courtesy to their customer) so I'd be keen to hear about what those internal investigations come up with.
Apr 2, 2017, 10:25 pm
#20
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Finally, a flight attendant exclaimed, “This plane isn’t leaving without him!” and sat beside me.
captains can have people removed. i dont think it is abused often.
"We apologize to Mr. Smith for his recent experience and have reached out to him to gather additional information. American does not tolerate discrimination of any kind and we are committed to providing a positive travel experience for all of our customers. Mr. Smith was re-accommodated on the next flight to Philadelphia."
American Airlines' media relations made the following statement to Mobility Management on March 30: "We apologize to Mr. Smith for his recent experience. We are investigating and have reached out to him to gather additional information. American does not tolerate discrimination of any kind and we are committed to providing a positive travel experience for all of our customers."
powerful >
"What I would like to hear from American Airlines is simply an acknowledgment, simply the recognition of me as a person,"...He says he would like an apology, but hopes this incident prompts American Airlines to work harder to deal with passengers with disabilities and honor their rights.
“I’m not looking for anything other than to raise awareness
I had to make an emotionally life-saving choice...take control of my true being. Instead of expressing anger, I could maintain grace...strength...hint an internal smile...I was comforted by words I heard long ago by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
“I’m not looking for anything other than to raise awareness
I had to make an emotionally life-saving choice...take control of my true being. Instead of expressing anger, I could maintain grace...strength...hint an internal smile...I was comforted by words I heard long ago by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Apr 2, 2017 at 10:31 pm
Apr 3, 2017, 1:59 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Posts: 533
Agree with AA's silence being the most indicative of something wrong on the part of the pilot/airline. Most of the time when stories like this blow up online, airlines are so quick to provide a reason as to why celebrity-this or aggrieved-mother that was removed from a flight. It's been days and no explanation from AA about anything the passenger has done which would result in being deplaned.
Apr 3, 2017, 5:34 am
#22
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,822
I keep thinking that this is the conflict of passenger rights and the Captain's power to kick anyone off the flight for any reason. Some of these Captains abuse this power. AA should compel the Captain to publicly explain his reasoning. Maybe then, after public pressure, there might be change. Captains might think twice before making such decisions.
Apr 3, 2017, 7:19 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
From the Managing Mobility article:
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
On March 31, Smith added that he is actively speaking with an American Airlines representative who has verified Smith's account of the incident and said the airlines is conducting an internal investigation.
Can we stop the incessant cynicism about the story's accuracy.
Never quite understood thread comments that, instead of actually addressing the issues brought up in the OP, choose to change the discussion to whether the OP is lying or not. What's the point of that? Why not deal with what's reported instead of just posting a variant of "Fake News!!!"
Just because you don't like the story doesn't make it a lie.
Also: The issue is indeed important to have resolved, but it is only partly about improper treatment of the disabled. Able bodied people are often bumped, for any number of reasons, and these reasons aren't always explained to them at the time. They are just told to leave, which indeed must be a disorienting experience.
However, if the frequency with which disabled pax gets bumped is lower than that of able bodied ones, all other things being equal, we would not react with outrage even though this too is discrimination, applied not despite but precisely because the pax in question are disabled. We accept this type of discrimination for the disabled because it is positive discrimination, i.e different standards applied to the disabled's benefit. They are deemed in need of it, of protection from bumping, and certainly of protection from being left on a jetway.
The blog is well written and Smith is indeed credible. However, again, that he was made to feel like a criminal is an experience not unknown to able bodied people as well, when put in the same situation of being bumped. So again, this is an instance only partly related to disability, it is about the general policy of airlines and the latitude they grant captains, flight crew to remove pax. I look forward to hearing AA's response.
Apr 3, 2017, 8:14 am
#24
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 292
If you are bumped, you are told why, usually overbooking by the airline. This almost always happens before you board the plane, not after. The airline may ask for volunteers. And of course, ultimately, there are regulations about passengers being bumped that trigger compensation, which was not offered here.
Apr 3, 2017, 8:50 am
#25
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
I can't believe you would even compare this situation to that of someone being bumped - able bodied or not.]
Why would I not? This is what happened, although it was done very, very badly. That I am applying Occam's razor doesn't make me unsympathetic, even if you accuse me of same.
If you are bumped, you are told why, usually overbooking by the airline. This almost always happens before you board the plane, not after.
That it almost always happens that one is told before boarding, does not make it any easier on those for whom it has, in fact, happened after they boarded.
And of course, ultimately, there are regulations about passengers being bumped that trigger compensation, which was not offered here.
That's the way bumps are supposed to be handled, and if the flight crew had recognized that that is in fact what they were implementing, that this was a form of bump, even if one the captain shouldn't have instituted, they would have at least had some sort of script to follow.
This is important, given that it is highly likely they were caught off guard by the captain. At such times, one is more likely to perform well if one uses the tools at one's disposal. That the script would have only been an approximation of what they should have done, would still have generated a better result than what they did do - flounder around, dump the guy on the jetway and bolt off in a panic. That is the key word: panic. They needed to know how to ward it off, do what they could.
It was one thing to deplane the man, possibly without good reason, it was another to not kick in the brain cells, call gate personnel to come take care of him, assist him off the jetway, rebook him, and start compensation procedures, as you say.
In short: Airline crews may not be able to defy a captain, but they should know how to institute ad hoc responses to minimize the consequences of orders that they strongly suspect are clumsy at the very least on the captain's part. They have only a certain number of tools to use, but if life presents you only with a screwdriver and you need a hammer, then your job is to purpose the screwdriver as a hammer the best you can.
As a result, Mr. Smith has suffered even worse treatment than he had to go through, and the airline's reputation damaged far worse than might otherwise have been the case.
Why would I not? This is what happened, although it was done very, very badly. That I am applying Occam's razor doesn't make me unsympathetic, even if you accuse me of same.
If you are bumped, you are told why, usually overbooking by the airline. This almost always happens before you board the plane, not after.
That it almost always happens that one is told before boarding, does not make it any easier on those for whom it has, in fact, happened after they boarded.
And of course, ultimately, there are regulations about passengers being bumped that trigger compensation, which was not offered here.
That's the way bumps are supposed to be handled, and if the flight crew had recognized that that is in fact what they were implementing, that this was a form of bump, even if one the captain shouldn't have instituted, they would have at least had some sort of script to follow.
This is important, given that it is highly likely they were caught off guard by the captain. At such times, one is more likely to perform well if one uses the tools at one's disposal. That the script would have only been an approximation of what they should have done, would still have generated a better result than what they did do - flounder around, dump the guy on the jetway and bolt off in a panic. That is the key word: panic. They needed to know how to ward it off, do what they could.
It was one thing to deplane the man, possibly without good reason, it was another to not kick in the brain cells, call gate personnel to come take care of him, assist him off the jetway, rebook him, and start compensation procedures, as you say.
In short: Airline crews may not be able to defy a captain, but they should know how to institute ad hoc responses to minimize the consequences of orders that they strongly suspect are clumsy at the very least on the captain's part. They have only a certain number of tools to use, but if life presents you only with a screwdriver and you need a hammer, then your job is to purpose the screwdriver as a hammer the best you can.
As a result, Mr. Smith has suffered even worse treatment than he had to go through, and the airline's reputation damaged far worse than might otherwise have been the case.
Apr 3, 2017, 1:26 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
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I didn't take it as cynicism about the accuracy of the facts, but caution about the interpretation of those facts. A judge does not rule until he or she has heard from everyone concerned; that he (she) exercises this restraint, doesn't mean the judge is accusing either plaintiff or defendant of lying.
Also: The issue is indeed important to have resolved, but it is only partly about improper treatment of the disabled. Able bodied people are often bumped, for any number of reasons, and these reasons aren't always explained to them at the time. They are just told to leave, which indeed must be a disorienting experience.
However, if the frequency with which disabled pax gets bumped is lower than that of able bodied ones, all other things being equal, we would not react with outrage even though this too is discrimination, applied not despite but precisely because the pax in question are disabled. We accept this type of discrimination for the disabled because it is positive discrimination, i.e different standards applied to the disabled's benefit. They are deemed in need of it, of protection from bumping, and certainly of protection from being left on a jetway.
The blog is well written and Smith is indeed credible. However, again, that he was made to feel like a criminal is an experience not unknown to able bodied people as well, when put in the same situation of being bumped. So again, this is an instance only partly related to disability, it is about the general policy of airlines and the latitude they grant captains, flight crew to remove pax. I look forward to hearing AA's response.
Also: The issue is indeed important to have resolved, but it is only partly about improper treatment of the disabled. Able bodied people are often bumped, for any number of reasons, and these reasons aren't always explained to them at the time. They are just told to leave, which indeed must be a disorienting experience.
However, if the frequency with which disabled pax gets bumped is lower than that of able bodied ones, all other things being equal, we would not react with outrage even though this too is discrimination, applied not despite but precisely because the pax in question are disabled. We accept this type of discrimination for the disabled because it is positive discrimination, i.e different standards applied to the disabled's benefit. They are deemed in need of it, of protection from bumping, and certainly of protection from being left on a jetway.
The blog is well written and Smith is indeed credible. However, again, that he was made to feel like a criminal is an experience not unknown to able bodied people as well, when put in the same situation of being bumped. So again, this is an instance only partly related to disability, it is about the general policy of airlines and the latitude they grant captains, flight crew to remove pax. I look forward to hearing AA's response.
Apr 15, 2017, 7:24 am
#27
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I read, but now can't find it, that AA claims his chair would not fit in the Cargo hold and that he chose not to fly without it. The chair dimensions are smaller than the cargo doors so that excuse does not fly. The other thing is they said he chose to not fly without it, but how can they claim that when he was not told the reason for being de-boarded? Something fishy here. If I do find the page again, i will post it here.
Apr 15, 2017, 9:20 am
#28
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I read, but now can't find it, that AA claims his chair would not fit in the Cargo hold and that he chose not to fly without it. The chair dimensions are smaller than the cargo doors so that excuse does not fly. The other thing is they said he chose to not fly without it, but how can they claim that when he was not told the reason for being de-boarded? Something fishy here. If I do find the page again, i will post it here.
Apr 16, 2017, 9:34 pm
#29
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
I read, but now can't find it, that AA claims his chair would not fit in the Cargo hold and that he chose not to fly without it. The chair dimensions are smaller than the cargo doors so that excuse does not fly. The other thing is they said he chose to not fly without it, but how can they claim that when he was not told the reason for being de-boarded? Something fishy here. If I do find the page again, i will post it here.
Apr 18, 2017, 10:12 am
#30
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On a 737, the type of aircraft he was on, it would be no problem. It also has a priority over other things. AA's excuse isn't flying.