Poor behaviour by presumptively able bodied people replying to threads in this forum.
What the **** is up with people coming onto disabled issue threads to try and prove the people involved "aren't really disabled"? Why on earth does every issue now come with someone taking time to say "he seems to be embellishing what happened". Why are able bodied posters from the rest of the site dropping in here to instruct us on what they think the threshold is before a person gets "perks" for being disabled.
Why do we have to waste so much time having to educate people that "disabilities are variable and cover many different issues and Air travel tend to impact across a wide range of what someone has problems doing". Why do we have to constantly educate people that we might not like being in a wheelchair, but in almost all airports it's the only accepted way for a disabled person to get through security without issues. Why do we always have to explain that an apparently able bodied person may have "hidden disabilities" when they come here to complain about "The fat guy stealing perks". What is their problem with a tiny number of disabled people getting early boarding, or getting priority for certain seats.
Maybe it's some kind of weird territorial behaviour that this group of "Others" are taking the "perks and benefits" they associate with having elite status with their airline? Can't we have this area to talk about what our needs are, and swap hints, and warn about issues with particular airlines/airports, without the Frequent Flyer Elite butting in?
I understand the OP's reaction (if not completely his level of aggravation). Obviously, for DeafFlyer whose disability is self-described and for me, with increasing hearing impairment (likely service-connected, but increasing as I grow older), the "marketplace's" reaction/capacity to meet the needs of the hearing impaired is modest. Obviously, the public capacity to well-address, unawareness, and sometimes cynical rejection make life miserable for many with a disabilities, some of them hard to recognize.
On the other hand, having spent almost half a century in a series of "management" positions, all involving substantial clients, customers, or candidates for one of those, the OP should realize that a substantial part of the negative public actions he (?) describes have been brought about by previous encounters with those - far too many - whose claimed disabilities are largely pretense, based upon deceit, selfish disregard for others, or the product of self-destructive neurotic personality disorders.
Add the broadly held perception that regulatory agencies and the courts have occasionally sought to cross a "Bridge Too Far", and there's a large often unsympathetic public out there unlikely to respond to well-intentioned, but amazingly clumsy attempts at "education".
Sadly, often efforts of the disabled and the good intentions of regulatory agencies to address those cries for relief actually end up inspiring such dramatic and widespread public reaction (and ridicule) as to do harm. We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
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We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
OK, I'll bite. How does accommodating those in wheelchairs inconvenience able-bodied people? The overall tone of your post is hostile to people who are "different" by being handicapped in any way.
OK, I'll bite. How does accommodating those in wheelchairs inconvenience able-bodied people? The overall tone of your post is hostile to people who are "different" by being handicapped in any way.
Unfortunately I can answer your question. Last week we were at a hotel which filled in their pool rather than pay to install a pool lift. Nobody wins when hotels make that choice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dianne47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMOliver
We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
OK, I'll bite. How does accommodating those in wheelchairs inconvenience able-bodied people? The overall tone of your post is hostile to people who are "different" by being handicapped in any way.
I am quite sure he was not talking about disabled people in their wheel chair.
Sadly, some if not many, able bodied people unscrupulously use provisions enacted to ease difficulties faced by disabled people.
No one is saying that everyone in a wheel chair is a scammer, but that some people are.
People who are disabled are not the ones scamming, pretenders are.
I knew a person drawing disability benefis for a bad back privately working for a roofing contractor, whi was also his father-in-law. Sixty minutes or 20/20 did a shoe on this many years ago.
We need to be patient and educate people about those with disabilities. It is what it is.
Sometimes that gets tiresome, though. It shouldn't always be the disabled person's responsibility to educate others, we have other things to do with our lives than constantly explain what it's like to have a disability.
As a Deaf person, I am also patient with hearing people and frequently explain things to them, but sometimes I don't want to, you know? I think that is part of the OP's frustration - just having to be patient all the time, and sometimes it boils over.
Sometimes that gets tiresome, though. It shouldn't always be the disabled person's responsibility to educate others, we have other things to do with our lives than constantly explain what it's like to have a disability.
As a Deaf person, I am also patient with hearing people and frequently explain things to them, but sometimes I don't want to, you know? I think that is part of the OP's frustration - just having to be patient all the time, and sometimes it boils over.
It definitely does get tiresome, but I was referring to here on Flyertalk. We need patience. I say that knowing that I've lost my patience at times here too.
Unfortunately I can answer your question. Last week we were at a hotel which filled in their pool rather than pay to install a pool lift. Nobody wins when hotels make that choice.
I'm ok with it. The hotel can choose not to have a pool rather than choosing to discriminate against some guests. And then guests can decide to stay somewhere else if a pool is very important to them.
I'm ok with it. The hotel can choose not to have a pool rather than choosing to discriminate against some guests. And then guests can decide to stay somewhere else if a pool is very important to them.
Agreed. In fact, all guests can decide to stay elsewhere, including guests with disabilities. Many of us swim regularly, as part of our physical fitness regimen. When I find a hotel with a pool I can use, it gets top marks from me, and my husband and I become regular guests.
As to the OP, yes, it gets tiring sometimes, having to educate the able-bodied, but I figure these fora sere multiple purposes:
1. Giving fellow travelers with disabilities information to make the experience easier, more pleasant, and more comfortable all around; and
2. Educating the traveling public in general about disability travel.
I'm ok with it. The hotel can choose not to have a pool rather than choosing to discriminate against some guests. And then guests can decide to stay somewhere else if a pool is very important to them.
We did.
Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear in my original statement. We were at the front desk of a hotel which still listed a pool in their advertising, but when my son found out they no longer had a pool and I found why, we went elsewhere. This was a Best Western in Vermont, sorry I don't remember the city because we were on a rather casual road trip, and just stopped when the lodging looked promising (and pet friendly). From that hotel we drove on to Burlington and stayed at the Quality Inn, which does have a pool, but not yet a pool lift.
Last edited by CDTraveler; Aug 12, 12 at 8:07 pm..
I can sympathize with the OP, I'm Deaf myself so just by looking at me people might not recognize my disability until I point it out... Sometimes people think I'm just lying and taking advantage of the system but it is what it is...
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It is almost impossible to "educate" a person who has already developed an opinion. We tend to stay loyal to our opinions. The only thing that will really change these people will be if they, or someone they love, develops a disability. You kind of have to know someone personally before you release your prejudice.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.
It is almost impossible to "educate" a person who has already developed an opinion. We tend to stay loyal to our opinions. The only thing that will really change these people will be if they, or someone they love, develops a disability. You kind of have to know someone personally before you release your prejudice.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.
That is a really lovely thing to say, fran. I know one of the things that I love about my husband is that he includes me in as many of his activities as possible (including travel) as a matter of course. He has taken me to places I never thought I would be able to see, pushing my wheelchair along the way (it helps that we purchased a lightweight travel wheelchair and that I am, myself, a lightweight traveler ). He has never once complained about this; and I think, wishes I could see more of what he does . . .
). He has never once complained about this; and I think, wishes I could see more of what he does . . .
