Poor behaviour by presumptively able bodied people replying to threads in this forum.
Oct 7, 2012, 7:56 pm
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
What the **** is up with people coming onto disabled issue threads to try and prove the people involved "aren't really disabled"? Why on earth does every issue now come with someone taking time to say "he seems to be embellishing what happened". Why are able bodied posters from the rest of the site dropping in here to instruct us on what they think the threshold is before a person gets "perks" for being disabled.
Why do we have to waste so much time having to educate people that "disabilities are variable and cover many different issues and Air travel tend to impact across a wide range of what someone has problems doing". Why do we have to constantly educate people that we might not like being in a wheelchair, but in almost all airports it's the only accepted way for a disabled person to get through security without issues. Why do we always have to explain that an apparently able bodied person may have "hidden disabilities" when they come here to complain about "The fat guy stealing perks". What is their problem with a tiny number of disabled people getting early boarding, or getting priority for certain seats.
Maybe it's some kind of weird territorial behaviour that this group of "Others" are taking the "perks and benefits" they associate with having elite status with their airline? Can't we have this area to talk about what our needs are, and swap hints, and warn about issues with particular airlines/airports, without the Frequent Flyer Elite butting in?
Why do we have to waste so much time having to educate people that "disabilities are variable and cover many different issues and Air travel tend to impact across a wide range of what someone has problems doing". Why do we have to constantly educate people that we might not like being in a wheelchair, but in almost all airports it's the only accepted way for a disabled person to get through security without issues. Why do we always have to explain that an apparently able bodied person may have "hidden disabilities" when they come here to complain about "The fat guy stealing perks". What is their problem with a tiny number of disabled people getting early boarding, or getting priority for certain seats.
Maybe it's some kind of weird territorial behaviour that this group of "Others" are taking the "perks and benefits" they associate with having elite status with their airline? Can't we have this area to talk about what our needs are, and swap hints, and warn about issues with particular airlines/airports, without the Frequent Flyer Elite butting in?
I could use hidden profanities and call those who disagree with me names or characterise them as clueless aggressive or naive. But I shall do no such thing. .
Jan 9, 2013, 3:49 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: Qantas, Gold Passport, SPG
Posts: 104
No one is saying that everyone in a wheel chair is a scammer, but that some people are.
I have multiple sclerosis. I can walk. However, I am legally blind as a result of the disease with the result that I can only see a few feet, and I have a severe visual field defect. Airports are terrible places for me to negotiate. Even with my white cane, people think I should get our of THEIR way. (Not sure how I think they should do that, considering I can't see them until my cane bumps into them).
As I said, I can walk. But not the inordinate distances at an airport, when I have been awake for God knows how many hours, and I can't see where I am going. So I ask for assistance, which in most cases involves a wheelchair. Which, after I am through the other side, I get out of and walk off.
This does not mean I am scamming anything. Anyone who says differently needs to swap with me for a day and see just how much of a "perk" it really is.
Jan 16, 2013, 8:00 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Programs: None - fairly infrequent flier
Posts: 33
Keiko:
Bless you for posting. I, too, have MS. Unlike you, I can see just fine....but have trouble walking distances, making airports very problematic for me. I've had MS for over 30 years, but only recently started using a wheelchair in the airport.
People are people and they will judge others, whether right or wrong. I do what I need to do and let others worry if I'm scamming the system. I've yet to have anyone challenge my need for a wheelchair or for pre-boarding.....but I'm always waiting for a challenge, because people tell me my MS can't be that bad , "because you look so good!" Walk a mile (or 100 feet) in my shoes, bud!
Bless you for posting. I, too, have MS. Unlike you, I can see just fine....but have trouble walking distances, making airports very problematic for me. I've had MS for over 30 years, but only recently started using a wheelchair in the airport.
People are people and they will judge others, whether right or wrong. I do what I need to do and let others worry if I'm scamming the system. I've yet to have anyone challenge my need for a wheelchair or for pre-boarding.....but I'm always waiting for a challenge, because people tell me my MS can't be that bad , "because you look so good!" Walk a mile (or 100 feet) in my shoes, bud!
Jan 19, 2013, 1:39 am
#19
Join Date: May 2012
Location: On the map.
Programs: AA PLT, United GLD, HHonors GLD, Hyatt DM, Avis PC, Hertz PC, SPG....
Posts: 29
folks,
I came looking for this thread and found one had been created and that many posters had already noticed this extremely disturbing issue. thank you.
As a website, flyer talk needs to police this issue. Americans with disabilities act is a law, not a joke. and this forum is currently just a small notch below holocaust denial level in its hate for people with special needs.
to the posters of those wonderful posts,
- first, you are in no position to judge someone else's ability. do not question why they need help at some time and don't at other times. they are doing you a favor by getting out of you way both getting on and off. in these times of tight connections, you frequent flyers will miss an order of magnitude more flights if they didn't try to preserve what dignity they can in the face of your disruptions.
- next, these previleges are not hard to obtain. you want them, tie a leg to a train track. then joke about it.
- last, karma is not fiction. when someone heaps this scorn on you, remember you spat first. until then, enjoy the misbehavior this little website permits you. and in the real world, be the jerk you are here anonymously. if you so enjoy these jokes, post them with your real identity. I would be glad to forward them to your employers.
and if this website has any decency, I am happy to maintain a sticky thread of shame for the worthies who are insulted because folks with special needs still dare to travel.
go ahead, hate me for it.
I came looking for this thread and found one had been created and that many posters had already noticed this extremely disturbing issue. thank you.
As a website, flyer talk needs to police this issue. Americans with disabilities act is a law, not a joke. and this forum is currently just a small notch below holocaust denial level in its hate for people with special needs.
to the posters of those wonderful posts,
- first, you are in no position to judge someone else's ability. do not question why they need help at some time and don't at other times. they are doing you a favor by getting out of you way both getting on and off. in these times of tight connections, you frequent flyers will miss an order of magnitude more flights if they didn't try to preserve what dignity they can in the face of your disruptions.
- next, these previleges are not hard to obtain. you want them, tie a leg to a train track. then joke about it.
- last, karma is not fiction. when someone heaps this scorn on you, remember you spat first. until then, enjoy the misbehavior this little website permits you. and in the real world, be the jerk you are here anonymously. if you so enjoy these jokes, post them with your real identity. I would be glad to forward them to your employers.
and if this website has any decency, I am happy to maintain a sticky thread of shame for the worthies who are insulted because folks with special needs still dare to travel.
go ahead, hate me for it.
Jan 20, 2013, 8:04 pm
#20
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gulf Coast/Ventura County/Somewhere in between
Programs: DL GM, Marriott PP, Avis Something or other
Posts: 4,431
Jan 20, 2013, 8:19 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
I think it hardly surprising that a level of scepticism exists about the use of some disability services.
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
As usual the selfish few cause problems for the genuine folks....
I take the point on not questioning a disability (that of course may be entirely non-obvious) BUT I intend to continue directing loud verbal remarks at (apparently very much "abled") folks who park in designated "Disabled" car spaces without the appropriate sticker.
You can hate me for doing that if you like.....
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
As usual the selfish few cause problems for the genuine folks....
I take the point on not questioning a disability (that of course may be entirely non-obvious) BUT I intend to continue directing loud verbal remarks at (apparently very much "abled") folks who park in designated "Disabled" car spaces without the appropriate sticker.
You can hate me for doing that if you like.....
Jan 20, 2013, 9:53 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
I think it hardly surprising that a level of scepticism exists about the use of some disability services.
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
I had to make a couple trips through ATL while undergoing chemo - debilitating, draining, exhausting chemo. Because the distance involved and the tightness of the connection at ATL I asked DL for assistance in making the connection. My final destination was a small airport where I had family waiting for me. The only assistance available at ATL to get from the far end of one terminal to the far end of another was a wheelchair transfer and I definite needed it after a rough transcon flight. At my final destination I was able to make the very short walk to the curb where a car was waiting for me.
"Arrival miracle?"
No, different circumstances necessitating different levels of assistance.
I doubt anyone waits for permission.
Jan 21, 2013, 11:38 am
#23
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,822
Cancer good enough for you?
I had to make a couple trips through ATL while undergoing chemo - debilitating, draining, exhausting chemo. Because the distance involved and the tightness of the connection at ATL I asked DL for assistance in making the connection. My final destination was a small airport where I had family waiting for me. The only assistance available at ATL to get from the far end of one terminal to the far end of another was a wheelchair transfer and I definite needed it after a rough transcon flight. At my final destination I was able to make the very short walk to the curb where a car was waiting for me.
"Arrival miracle?"
No, different circumstances necessitating different levels of assistance.
I doubt anyone waits for permission.
I had to make a couple trips through ATL while undergoing chemo - debilitating, draining, exhausting chemo. Because the distance involved and the tightness of the connection at ATL I asked DL for assistance in making the connection. My final destination was a small airport where I had family waiting for me. The only assistance available at ATL to get from the far end of one terminal to the far end of another was a wheelchair transfer and I definite needed it after a rough transcon flight. At my final destination I was able to make the very short walk to the curb where a car was waiting for me.
"Arrival miracle?"
No, different circumstances necessitating different levels of assistance.
I doubt anyone waits for permission.
Jan 21, 2013, 2:58 pm
#24
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Why that was appropriate was none of his business, nor anyone else's.
There may be pretenders out there, but there are even more judgemental types, and I, for one, am more than a little fed up with them.
Jan 21, 2013, 9:58 pm
#25
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 364
I think it hardly surprising that a level of scepticism exists about the use of some disability services.
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
As usual the selfish few cause problems for the genuine folks....
I take the point on not questioning a disability (that of course may be entirely non-obvious) BUT I intend to continue directing loud verbal remarks at (apparently very much "abled") folks who park in designated "Disabled" car spaces without the appropriate sticker.
You can hate me for doing that if you like.....
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
As usual the selfish few cause problems for the genuine folks....
I take the point on not questioning a disability (that of course may be entirely non-obvious) BUT I intend to continue directing loud verbal remarks at (apparently very much "abled") folks who park in designated "Disabled" car spaces without the appropriate sticker.
You can hate me for doing that if you like.....
If you go and read the "Sticky" posts by Katja you would find several reasons which might explain why a passenger might wheelchair to the plane but can leave the plane without assistance and achieve an apparent arrival miracle. Katja has even posted the airline codes for these various conditions. My sister-in-law is a good example - she cannot descend safely but is able to ascend well enough to make it on her own - not that she can lead the rush. It's the nature of her disabltity.
Yes there are thousands of drivers who misuse handicapped parking spaces, with or without placards, but how do you know which drivers to yell at? If they don't have a placard with them (they lost it - forgot it, were transporting a genuinely handicapped person) they well might have the wallet-sized authorization proof with them which they are required to carry - which a passerby could not see. Maybe requiring everybody to have metal automobile handicapped license plates would help.
Jan 22, 2013, 2:42 am
#26
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
Fine.
You know full well I am sure that the instances we refer to are the most egregious kind... where little (or more likely pretty much zero) doubt exists as to the scam being perpetrated...
We ARE in fact talking of those who "lead the rush"... or near enough.
I yell at fit young men who park in disabled spaces and LEAP out of the car and RUN into the shops... and when challenged they are unable to offer any of the "no permit displayed" justifications suggested here (because they are in fact breaking the law)... In fact they tend to be either abusive or highly defensive "I was only there for a minute! etc... Like that matters.
...but hey.. according to folks here they may actually be disabled so I'll stop doing that... and they'll be able to continue parking there and never actually be "called" on it.
I thought I was doing the appropriate thing.
Excuse me.
You know full well I am sure that the instances we refer to are the most egregious kind... where little (or more likely pretty much zero) doubt exists as to the scam being perpetrated...
We ARE in fact talking of those who "lead the rush"... or near enough.
I yell at fit young men who park in disabled spaces and LEAP out of the car and RUN into the shops... and when challenged they are unable to offer any of the "no permit displayed" justifications suggested here (because they are in fact breaking the law)... In fact they tend to be either abusive or highly defensive "I was only there for a minute! etc... Like that matters.
...but hey.. according to folks here they may actually be disabled so I'll stop doing that... and they'll be able to continue parking there and never actually be "called" on it.
I thought I was doing the appropriate thing.
Excuse me.
Last edited by trooper; Jan 22, 2013 at 3:09 am
Jan 22, 2013, 4:33 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gulf Coast/Ventura County/Somewhere in between
Programs: DL GM, Marriott PP, Avis Something or other
Posts: 4,431
Channel 7 news in SAN used to stake out disabled parking spaces in area malls during Christmas shopping season and try to interview people who parked there with no sticker. Some of it was hilarious, some just pathetic.
Jan 22, 2013, 9:20 am
#28
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Fine.
You know full well I am sure that the instances we refer to are the most egregious kind... where little (or more likely pretty much zero) doubt exists as to the scam being perpetrated...
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
You know full well I am sure that the instances we refer to are the most egregious kind... where little (or more likely pretty much zero) doubt exists as to the scam being perpetrated...
Most of us are aware of the "arrival miracle" where a passenger wheelchaired (is that a word?) TO the aircraft is somehow able to leave entirely without assistance.
Originally Posted by trooper
Please note that I stand ready to be advised of what specific physical condition might be involved there.
No, the title of this thread is "Poor behaviour by presumptively able bodied people replying to threads in this forum. Think about that one for a moment.
I yell at fit young men who park in disabled spaces and LEAP out of the car and RUN into the shops... and when challenged they are unable to offer any of the "no permit displayed" justifications suggested here (because they are in fact breaking the law)... In fact they tend to be either abusive or highly defensive "I was only there for a minute! etc... Like that matters.
...but hey.. according to folks here they may actually be disabled so I'll stop doing that... and they'll be able to continue parking there and never actually be "called" on it.
I thought I was doing the appropriate thing.
Excuse me.
...but hey.. according to folks here they may actually be disabled so I'll stop doing that... and they'll be able to continue parking there and never actually be "called" on it.
I thought I was doing the appropriate thing.
Excuse me.
Jan 22, 2013, 10:32 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,822
This thread is more about those, who do not have disabilities, calling those, who do have them, out as pretenders taking advantage of the system that they themselves want to take advantage of. They throw out words like, "entitled" in a hurtful way. Those hurt, but it hurts worse when they are (rarely) correct about an individual who really is gaming the system. Those individuals make it worse for the rest of us. It's a never ending cycle.
Jan 23, 2013, 2:53 am
#30
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: Qantas, Gold Passport, SPG
Posts: 104
This thread is so misguided it is incredible.
I do not believe that anyone would use a wheelchair, even once, if they didn't have to. Anyone who suggests otherwise is seriously misguided at best, and down right despicable at worst.
No one who has ever had to use a wheelchair, would suggest that anyone doing so is faking. Because they would understand the absolute humiliation that comes from disclosing our most personal and private medical information in order to be afforded an accommodation to make our access to things that able bodied people take for granted equal.
Because that is what you think you have the right to. Deny us equal participation in society.
To those who maintain this fiction, I say this to you: you should go down on your knees every night and thank God almighty that he has so blessed your life that neither you, nor anyone in your family has lived a life in pain, disability, or blindness. Your insensitivity and hubris is amazing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Next time, just stop and think, "There but for the grace of God go I".
I do not believe that anyone would use a wheelchair, even once, if they didn't have to. Anyone who suggests otherwise is seriously misguided at best, and down right despicable at worst.
No one who has ever had to use a wheelchair, would suggest that anyone doing so is faking. Because they would understand the absolute humiliation that comes from disclosing our most personal and private medical information in order to be afforded an accommodation to make our access to things that able bodied people take for granted equal.
Because that is what you think you have the right to. Deny us equal participation in society.
To those who maintain this fiction, I say this to you: you should go down on your knees every night and thank God almighty that he has so blessed your life that neither you, nor anyone in your family has lived a life in pain, disability, or blindness. Your insensitivity and hubris is amazing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Next time, just stop and think, "There but for the grace of God go I".