Was this woman running a "wheelchair scam?"
#91
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,821
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/...lines-legally/
I totally agree that they should not be tipped. That is a reasonable rate of pay. My wife is a personal care attendant and does far more than the pushers do for $11.xx per hour. She should get tips before they do.
#92
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,008
CD Yes, mass fraud. I think your use of the words "mass fraud" perfectly describes what is happening. Do a simple Yahoo or Google search and you will find numerous threads describing the enormous extent of this problem nationwide but especially in California as mules post explained (immediately following your post).
#93
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 364
I do understand - that is very annoying. I should say that it is my sister-in-law who is the handicapped person and rides a wheelchair and either my wife or I often transport her. We know that experience. In one way receiving the "eye" might be a good sign because if many people do that it might deter able-bodied persons who are on no such errand as yours from filling spaces reserved for the handicapped. (Nah)
Last edited by rmiller774; Oct 17, 2012 at 9:50 pm Reason: sp
#94
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT (NYC Suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL
Programs: United Premier 1K, American AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 3,089
The simple solution is to require that anyone boarding with a wheel chair must also disembark with one. This first on, last off, policy might eliminate situations, especially on Florida flights, where boarding is delayed by upwards of ten chairs, often accompanied by multiple additional companions, only to see a matching number of chairs, at the destination, summoned by the carrier, remain idle, as these folks miraculously reacquire their motor skills, in flight. What is especially galling is to have paid extra, for early boarding, only to find overhead space already taken by these additional people who have boarded with the supposedly disabled person. Lest I be singled out as some heartless character, let me add that I have suffered with a degenerative movement disorder for over 10 years. I have never requested early boarding. Truly handicapped people know that the way to fight what you have, is to resist giving in, until you have no choice. I have, on numerous occasions, had to hang onto a boarding rope, to support myself, while watching a parade of these people board, some of whom will shove me aside, on their arrival, making a beeline for the exit.
#95
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: Gold, plat, diamond and more
Posts: 3,360
Clearly judging others is a bigger problem than a few people scamming the wheelchair use.
I hope all fellow FTers stay healthy, and avoid any use of wheelchair.
I do not support anyone fully fit scamming by using wheel chair
I hope all fellow FTers stay healthy, and avoid any use of wheelchair.
I do not support anyone fully fit scamming by using wheel chair
#96
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Falls Gulch VA
Posts: 222
I've retired and no longer travel enough to get early boarding perks with elite status. Furthermore, when I travel on my own money, I almost always get a cheap fare which, at least on United, puts you in the last boarding group.
I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.
I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.
#97
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
I've retired and no longer travel enough to get early boarding perks with elite status. Furthermore, when I travel on my own money, I almost always get a cheap fare which, at least on United, puts you in the last boarding group.
I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.
I've not done this yet, and I know my fellow FTers would be horrified at the idea, but more than once I've been tempted to take a cane (left over from an Achilles tendon injury several years ago) along with me and and walk on board with the "need extra time to get up the jetway" passengers. It worked when I needed the cane so I suppose it will work today.
She will never submit to using a wheelchair in an airport, yet I have seen her in tears after long lines at immigration. She has a spinal injury which causes her back to go into spasm if standing; slow walking causes little problem.
She does sometimes use a cane - but that almost guarantees secondary screening at security and further indignity in addition to the frequent "eye" she receives as some people seem to think any disability aid is automatically a scam.
Undoubtedly some may use assistance as a scam - but by no means all. In particular there are many who are impossible to assess by a casual glance from a fellow passenger. Ask any healthcare professional. Ask how difficult and complex the procedure is for proper assessment of the "severe disablement" that is required in some countries for a disabled parking badge.
#98
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
Just by looking at individual cases, it's impossible to know whether they are really disabled or they are scamming. I would not bet on a person in a wheel chair not being disabled. Special provisions for disabled people are there for a reason. To help them cope with situations they would not be able to manage without assistance. It's not too much to as a civilised society to accommodate needs of the disabled.
It would be naive to say that the system is not abused. Just as you when you toss a coin, you have no way of predicting whether it would be a heads or tails, but statistically, you know that you wil get heads or tails about 50% of the time. The same principle applies.
I know people who have used wheel chair assistance solely for the purpose of expediting their security and/or boarding procedures. We are all humans and are more or less likely to give into the temptation of using rules to our benefit. Given the state of our security procedures and the competition for overhead space, it's not surprising that some people would give in to the temptation using the logic that they are not hurting anyone by doing it. The same logic is used by people with pree-teens or even teenagers who jump to board early when pre-oarding for families with children is called.
In absence of any reliable data, it's hard to say which is a bigger problem, judging or scamming? People make assessment, judgement, if you want to call it so, based on their situation.
If you are being delayed, and there is an unusually large number of wheel chair users, you are likely to question some in your mind. ON the other hand, disabled people are likely to question the wisdom of those who judge an individual based on appearance.
I have seen some astonishing hostility when a wheel chair is followed by members of the family, "It's ok for a disabled person, but why does the entire family get to skip the line?". Well, do you expect the disabled person to be by themselves all alone? Then there is also the issue of resources. The sooner the wheel chair or the staff pushing it are freed, the sooner they can go on to help other people. I had to be firm with a passenger who was in the queue before me when an old lady in a wheel chair was accompanied by her husband. This passenger complained about "why is he being allowed to go ahead of us? He is not disabled".
I told him this how it is. The family gets to go with the disabled person. "They come to your country to visit and spend their money. This is how you want to treat them? "Neither the lady, nor the husband spoke the local language.
I have also seen people getting upset, understandably so, at the sight of a family of 10 walking behind a wheel chair. Human beings are as capable of doing very nice things for their fellow being, as they are of doing petty things to get some convenience. It's hard to to say who will behave like what under which circumstances. The games people play to get an upgrade is an example. I would not venture to guess a number, but I know wheel chair scamming is a fact of life. Saying that wheel chair scamming is a problem is not pointing a finger at disabled people, but at those who are NOT.
It would be naive to say that the system is not abused. Just as you when you toss a coin, you have no way of predicting whether it would be a heads or tails, but statistically, you know that you wil get heads or tails about 50% of the time. The same principle applies.
I know people who have used wheel chair assistance solely for the purpose of expediting their security and/or boarding procedures. We are all humans and are more or less likely to give into the temptation of using rules to our benefit. Given the state of our security procedures and the competition for overhead space, it's not surprising that some people would give in to the temptation using the logic that they are not hurting anyone by doing it. The same logic is used by people with pree-teens or even teenagers who jump to board early when pre-oarding for families with children is called.
In absence of any reliable data, it's hard to say which is a bigger problem, judging or scamming? People make assessment, judgement, if you want to call it so, based on their situation.
If you are being delayed, and there is an unusually large number of wheel chair users, you are likely to question some in your mind. ON the other hand, disabled people are likely to question the wisdom of those who judge an individual based on appearance.
I have seen some astonishing hostility when a wheel chair is followed by members of the family, "It's ok for a disabled person, but why does the entire family get to skip the line?". Well, do you expect the disabled person to be by themselves all alone? Then there is also the issue of resources. The sooner the wheel chair or the staff pushing it are freed, the sooner they can go on to help other people. I had to be firm with a passenger who was in the queue before me when an old lady in a wheel chair was accompanied by her husband. This passenger complained about "why is he being allowed to go ahead of us? He is not disabled".
I told him this how it is. The family gets to go with the disabled person. "They come to your country to visit and spend their money. This is how you want to treat them? "Neither the lady, nor the husband spoke the local language.
I have also seen people getting upset, understandably so, at the sight of a family of 10 walking behind a wheel chair. Human beings are as capable of doing very nice things for their fellow being, as they are of doing petty things to get some convenience. It's hard to to say who will behave like what under which circumstances. The games people play to get an upgrade is an example. I would not venture to guess a number, but I know wheel chair scamming is a fact of life. Saying that wheel chair scamming is a problem is not pointing a finger at disabled people, but at those who are NOT.
#99
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fayetteville, AR, USA
Programs: AA EP + million miler DL PL Med + million miler
Posts: 129
My wife is disabled and she has photo ID to prove it. Our disability parking scheme requires photo ID on the card along with holographic security patch. It is only granted when severe disablement is assessed.
She will never submit to using a wheelchair in an airport, yet I have seen her in tears after long lines at immigration. She has a spinal injury which causes her back to go into spasm if standing; slow walking causes little problem.
She does sometimes use a cane - but that almost guarantees secondary screening at security and further indignity in addition to the frequent "eye" she receives as some people seem to think any disability aid is automatically a scam.
Undoubtedly some may use assistance as a scam - but by no means all. In particular there are many who are impossible to assess by a casual glance from a fellow passenger. Ask any healthcare professional. Ask how difficult and complex the procedure is for proper assessment of the "severe disablement" that is required in some countries for a disabled parking badge.
She will never submit to using a wheelchair in an airport, yet I have seen her in tears after long lines at immigration. She has a spinal injury which causes her back to go into spasm if standing; slow walking causes little problem.
She does sometimes use a cane - but that almost guarantees secondary screening at security and further indignity in addition to the frequent "eye" she receives as some people seem to think any disability aid is automatically a scam.
Undoubtedly some may use assistance as a scam - but by no means all. In particular there are many who are impossible to assess by a casual glance from a fellow passenger. Ask any healthcare professional. Ask how difficult and complex the procedure is for proper assessment of the "severe disablement" that is required in some countries for a disabled parking badge.
#100
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
As someone who often uses a wheelchair in airports, let me explain why the necessity of its use for some may not be so obvious. I have a debilitating back condition which has required four surgeries and an early retirement. I often use a cane to get around but find the often very long distance from security to gate to be difficult to handle even with my cane, especially at the end of a day or trip. I will often use a wheel chair in those circumstances, or when I have a connection that requires either switching concourses or covering a large distance between gates. I may not use one gating off the plane when a connection is tight and there is a transport waiting or I'm hoping for one. I may also be expecting a wheelchair at the gate. There may be a short distance between gates for my connecting flights.
Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.
Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.
#101
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CT (NYC Suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL
Programs: United Premier 1K, American AAdvantage Gold
Posts: 3,089
I repeat. If they board first, with a wheelchair, they have to disembark, last, with one. That would put a stop to those who use this limited resource for other purposes.
#102
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
As someone who often uses a wheelchair in airports, let me explain why the necessity of its use for some may not be so obvious. I have a debilitating back condition which has required four surgeries and an early retirement. I often use a cane to get around but find the often very long distance from security to gate to be difficult to handle even with my cane, especially at the end of a day or trip. I will often use a wheel chair in those circumstances, or when I have a connection that requires either switching concourses or covering a large distance between gates. I may not use one gating off the plane when a connection is tight and there is a transport waiting or I'm hoping for one. I may also be expecting a wheelchair at the gate. There may be a short distance between gates for my connecting flights.
Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.
Those are just a few examples off the top of my head. My main point is simply this: just because I am able to get out of my seat and walk off the plane, whether aided by my cane or not, is in no way determinative of my need for the use of a wheelchair at that or any other time. Sure, there are undeniable benefits to using a wheelchair in an airport, but I would trade those benefits in a heartbeat for the pleasure of never actually needing to use one again.
#103
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Plat, Million Miler, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 21
I had a work colleague who had a foam cervical collar in his briefcase. When the announcement "...and those needing a little more time to board." was made, he put it on and walked, slowly, aboard. Strangely, he didn't need it during the flight or deplaning. I called him on it and he said he needed the neck brace due to a back injury - the pain got better as the flight progressed so he didn't need it when he got off!
#104
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,720
I cannot tell you the number of times people gave my mother the stinkeye for parking in the handicapped spot, using my placard. She was coming to pick me up (usually from a mani/pedi, facial, or the like), and I needed her to push my manual wheelchair out to the parking lot. Then, I needed the space to transfer from the chair to the car. People are quick to judge situations they know nothing about . . .
My medical problems are none of their business. Two doctors and the state in which I reside have determined I qualify for a placard, so MYOB.
#105
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Programs: Hilton HHonors Diamond,Bonvoy Platinum,Shangri-La Golden Circle Jade,LH SEN,AZ Gold,VS Elevate Gold
Posts: 133
I have often mused that if I have connecting flights at FRA, AMS or CDG (which happens often) I ought to request Special Assistance (i.e. a wheelchair), so that I won't have to run like an idiot in high heels and with a heavy laptop swinging for a mile or more.
I've never done it yet but hey is it not tempting when I finally make it to my connecting flight and my back is killing me...
I've never done it yet but hey is it not tempting when I finally make it to my connecting flight and my back is killing me...