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Consolidated "Pellegrino World's Best Restaurants" thread

Consolidated "Pellegrino World's Best Restaurants" thread

Old Apr 22, 2008, 4:52 pm
  #1  
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Consolidated "Pellegrino World's Best Restaurants" thread

The S.Pellegrino World's 50 Best Restaurants made local news for the inclusion (again) of some top Sydney restaurants (Tetsuya in the Top Ten and Rockpool - falling down the list due to its change from fine-dining to casual dining).

Care to name drop those which you have tried and whether you would return?

I've always wanted to try Tetsuyas.
These awards mean it will be more popular than ever (if that's possible), despite subtle changes that may occur due to staffing changes.

What about your city's restaurants, or cities where you travel?
Would you go on the basis of the award or wait for the buzz to flatten a little?

The list (2008): (Linked list includes + or - change from 2007)
1 El Bulli Spain World's Best Restaurant, Best in Europe
2 The Fat Duck UK
3 Pierre Gagnaire France
4 Mugaritz Spain Chefs Choice
5 The French Laundry USA Best Restaurant in Americas
6 Per Se USA
7 Bras France
8 Arzak Spain
9 Tetsuya's Australia Best Restaurant in Australasia
10 Noma Denmark
11 L'Astrance France
12 Gambero Rosso Italy
13 Restaurant Gordon Ramsay UK
14 L'Atelier de Joël Robuchon France
15 Le Louis XV France
16 St John UK Highest Climber
17 Jean Georges USA
18 2 Alain Ducasse au Plaza Athénée France
19 Hakkasan UK
20 Le Bernardin USA
21 Alinea USA
22 Le Gavroche UK
23 Dal Pescatore Italy
24 Le Cinq France
25 Troisgros France
26 El Celler de Can Roca Spain
27 Re-entry L'Hotel de Ville - Philippe Rochat Switzerland
28 Hof Van Cleve Belgium
29 Martin Berasategui Spain
30 Nobu London UK
31 Can Fabes Spain
32 Enoteca Pinchiorri Italy
33 Re-entry Le Meurice France
34 New entry Vendome Germany Highest New Entry
35 Re-entry Die Schwarzwaldstube Germany
36 Le Calandre Italy
37 Chez Panisse USA
38 Charlie Trotter's USA
39 Chez Dominique Finland
40 D.O.M Brazil
41 Daniel USA
42 Oud Sluis Netherlands
43 Ristorante Cracco Italy
44 New entry Asador Etxebarri Spain
45 Les Ambassadeurs France
46 L'Arpege France
47 Re-Entry Tantris Germany
48 Oaxen Skärgärdskrog Sweden
49 Rockpool Austrailia
50 Le Quartier Francais South Africa Best in Middle East and Africa
To get a profile of each restaurant, use this link for restaurant #1 and change the number to the ranking of the one you seek.
http://www.theworlds50best.com/resta...aurant_01.html [El Bulli profile]
http://www.theworlds50best.com/resta...aurant_02.html [Fat Duck profile] (etc)

Likewise, to get past lists, just change the year in this link for 2007, 2006 etc:
http://www.theworlds50best.com/2007_list.html
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 5:36 pm
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The list is pretty ridiculous (I made another thread up for it here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=815849)

I saw in egullet a theory about how they decided on the ranking. According to this http://www.bighospitality.co.uk/item/1558/23/5/3
We have 682 reviewers, 3410 votes (about 5 each on average). The theory was that if 100 people visited a conveniently located and famous restaurant but only half of them liked it enough to give it a vote it would still get 50 votes, if 10 people went to a less well known/harder to reach restaurant and all of them gave their vote that should mean that the restaurant was better (as it scored 100% rather than 50%) but it would still only get 10 votes.

Considering the sheer number of outstanding restaurants in Asia (and perhaps in Australia) and the small proportion of voters assigned these regions in comparison to other parts of the world, it's no surprise that they hardly get a look in.

As it stands, meaningless.
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 5:56 pm
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LapLap, just to clarify, your thread is about the list overlooking Japan's restaurants - therefore none of the restaurants on the list.

Next you'll tell me Eurovision is rigged!
My question is not about the fairness of the voting system but whether this list will affect FTers' attitude or patronage of the listed restaurants.

Most discussion will indeed belong in the NYC, UK and other region forums but as it is a publicity tool for tourism, there may be some worthwhile discussion here in DB.

It is interesting that, per your thread, Japanese dining chains like Nobu are included, along with Japanese-chef institutions like Tetsuya in Sydney.
It must be biased according to the UK market's target customers.
Perhaps a few representatives of Japan's restaurant association should complain, too?
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 6:40 pm
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In the past year, I've had memorable meals at

3 Pierre Gagnaire France

4 Mugaritz Spain Chefs Choice

11 L'Astrance France

Memorable, each and every one. I recommend lunches rather than dinners. In France. The price is significantly less. In Spain, I don't think there is any difference between lunch and dinner prices.

Pierre Gagnaire was fascinating, but a bit more odd in terms of tastes. I'll definitely return to Mugaritz and L'Astrance when in the area and able to get reservations. (L'Astrance is notoriously difficult to get in.)
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 6:43 pm
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Originally Posted by BiziBB
LapLap, just to clarify, your thread is about the list overlooking Japan's restaurants - therefore none of the restaurants on the list.

Next you'll tell me Eurovision is rigged!
If the Eurovision Song Contest decided to call itself the World Song Contest and change almost nothing about its structure, then yes, yes I would.

I've had lunch at Nobu London, wasn't that great. As far as I understood Nobu sells Japanese food but it isn't a Japanese chain.

My response is that with no Japanese restaurants on the list (the city with the most Michelin stars in the world - with more to come in future editions) no Chinese restaurants and so few from any other parts of Asia the list is obviously a sham. As such, no, it's not going to affect my future choices in the slightest.

Perhaps someone will be more likely to visit El Poblet in Denia (near Alicante) as a result of this list, but I'm not a molecular gastronomy devotee so I'll continue to ignore the place (I'd rather have a perfectly cooked 'Arroz a Banda' and have my fill of gastronomic porn with a divine dessert from Torreblanca's Pasteleria Totel)

Interestingly, there are no mentions of El Poblet in Flyertalk, and the only person who's recommended Pasteleria Totel (in Elda, half an hour's bus ride from Alicante, where one of the world's greatest confectioners plies his trade and whose desserts wind up in some of the restaurants which did make it into the list) is me.
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 6:45 pm
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The list makes me want to visit San Sebastian and Barcelona, so I can try MUGARITZ, ARZAK and EL BULLI.
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 7:03 pm
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I listed Nobu as Japanese dining and am unsure of the ownership structure other than the fact that franchises seems to have 'celebrity' investors, possibly among others.
I don't recall if there is a Japanese person among the founders.

Perhaps I should have listed it as celebrity dining instead.

Perhaps it is a list of the Top 50 restaurants which happen to offer Pellegrino.

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Old Apr 22, 2008, 7:30 pm
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Originally Posted by broadwayboy
The list makes me want to visit San Sebastian and Barcelona, so I can try MUGARITZ, ARZAK and EL BULLI.
Getting to El Bulli from Barcelona (and particularly gettiing back) is a real headache, it's in Les Roses, a few hours away. You'd be better off staying somewhere nearby.
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 9:53 pm
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I think I'm in the LapLap camp here. Where a top 50 list does not include any restaurant in Asia (and does include restaurants like Rockpool which hasn't been considered at the top echelon of australian restaurants for years) it seems completely irrelevant to me. If anything it would make me less likely to visit those restaurants as the reviewers have such a different view of what a top restaurant is than me.
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 8:57 am
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I've been to exactly zero on the list.
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 9:14 am
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I have been to 7 on the list. While I liked them all, I certainly wouldnt agree with their ordering completely. I also have been to several I would place above some on the list. Of the 7 I have been to, however, I would place the highest on their list, Pierre Gagnaire, as the best of the 7.

Those 7 are:

3
16
17
20
37
41
46


I liked 16 a lot, been there quite a few times, but I would place all of the others ahead of it except maybe 41. I would also place #46 and maybe 41 ahead of all but #3 and 20. Heck, my rankings would be:

3
20
37 tie
46 tie
17
16
41
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 9:25 am
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Originally Posted by BiziBB
I listed Nobu as Japanese dining and am unsure of the ownership structure other than the fact that franchises seems to have 'celebrity' investors, possibly among others.
I don't recall if there is a Japanese person among the founders.

Perhaps I should have listed it as celebrity dining instead.

Perhaps it is a list of the Top 50 restaurants which happen to offer Pellegrino.

There is for sure. The Financial Times "How to spend it" (sic) supplement had a very interesting feature with the Japanese co-founder of Nobu, Nobuyuki Matsuhisa. He is still best friends with the celebrity restaurant partners and customers, it seems.

A more comprehensive background article on him: http://www.newyorkrestaurantinsider....t2007-nobu.asp

Last edited by mosburger; Apr 23, 2008 at 9:42 am
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 10:20 am
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It looks like I've eaten at 14 of those restaurants. I have to ROFL at #30 (Nobu London). I've dined there three times, and it's always below average. I've dined at all of the USA Nobus. They're usually a safe bet, but nothing world class. The London Nobu that I've been to (Park Lane) is by far the worst Nobu I've been to. Don't get me wrong -- it's still good and I'll go back for lunch if I'm across the street (Hilton Park Lane), but it's by no means a world class restaurant. The scene isn't all that either.
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 11:54 am
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I've been to just 2. #5 and 37. Our first visit to #5 was superb, that we were eager to try it again. Second visit left us less than satisfied that I doubt I'll be going back again.

#37 failed to live up to expectations. But I am willing to give it a second try.
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 12:50 pm
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I've only eaten at #46... for lunch. Would absolutely go back.
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