Is there a master "Chinese" cookbook?
Dec 4, 2016, 2:12 pm
#31
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Here's some news about the attribution for where General Tso chicken comes from.
http://www.theprovince.com/entertain...988/story.html
I don't think I've ever had it.
http://www.theprovince.com/entertain...988/story.html
I don't think I've ever had it.
Dec 5, 2016, 8:43 pm
#32
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I've long wondered the same thing as the OP. After reading this thread so far, I googled "sysco chinese sauces" and these were the first things that came up: http://www.starportfoods.com/ and http://www.sysco.com/starportfoods.pdf.
Apr 9, 2021, 2:48 pm
#33
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Reviving an old topic
This piece may explain a lot about Chinese food catering in the U.S..
Thus began a period of experimentation, when American Chinese restaurants—many of which were fancy, date-night places—began trying a whole bunch of stuff to see what stuck.
Through the 1950s and 1960s, much of the modern American Chinese oeuvre developed and was codified, especially the proven hits, the stuff you had to have if you wanted a packed dining room
Menu printing was and remains dominated by a few printers in New York City and the Bay Area—menus used by tens of thousands of independent restaurants.
Through the 1950s and 1960s, much of the modern American Chinese oeuvre developed and was codified, especially the proven hits, the stuff you had to have if you wanted a packed dining room
Menu printing was and remains dominated by a few printers in New York City and the Bay Area—menus used by tens of thousands of independent restaurants.
Nov 27, 2021, 10:50 am
#35
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Something abut Chinese food in the U.S., interview ith a man who has eaten at over 8,000 of them.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59356176
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59356176
The early Chinese immigrants in the US were mostly from Toisan, a rural Cantonese county in southern China. The coastal community had a tradition of sailing abroad but was experiencing bloody ethnic conflict and economic struggles, which prompted waves of immigration to America.By the time Mr Chan had his first tastes of chop suey, there were relatively few Chinese Americans in the US - 0.08% of the total population - most of whom were descended from Toisan.
"It was like if all the Americans in China were from a small town 100 miles outside of Los Angeles. Very underrepresented," said Mr Chan. As a result, early American-Chinese food tended to be homogenous, had to adapt for local ingredients and catered to an Americanised taste.
"It was like if all the Americans in China were from a small town 100 miles outside of Los Angeles. Very underrepresented," said Mr Chan. As a result, early American-Chinese food tended to be homogenous, had to adapt for local ingredients and catered to an Americanised taste.
Nov 27, 2021, 2:02 pm
#36
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I think most of have noticed that a vast majority of the "Chinese" restaurants all have very similar, if not identical, menus, and very similar, if not identical - dishes. Yet we are also told that almost none of these are authentic in any way, and few of the cooks in these restaurants are formally trained in any way.
So is there some master "Chinese Restaurant" cookbook? If these are all non-authentic dishes, how do the cooks know to prepare them in the same way? Absent some kind of master class all potential Chinese cooks must go through, there must be some way they share these recipes.
So is there some master "Chinese Restaurant" cookbook? If these are all non-authentic dishes, how do the cooks know to prepare them in the same way? Absent some kind of master class all potential Chinese cooks must go through, there must be some way they share these recipes.
So no "master Chinese Restaurant" cookbook.
That being said, with the influx of immigrants from all parts of China as well as the Chinese diaspora across Asia, Australia, Europe and all points in between, there's a whole bunch more menus in the Chinese restaurant lexicon that are being served up primarily in large U.S. urban cores but also slowly spreading across the whole country. And who knows, maybe even a few more Chinese menu printer shops (and self printing) will come into vogue.
David
Nov 27, 2021, 3:04 pm
#37
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I think it is clear now from follow up posts to this thread (and for YVR Cockroach for keeping it alive) that a) "Chinese" restaurants in the U.S. got their start from a rather narrow base of entrepreneurs who hailed from a small region of Canton, b) the menus are similar not only for that reason but for the need to adapt to available ingredients as well as local tastes and c) there's a conspiracy in terms of the number of printers of Chinese restaurant menus. And, oh, Sysco and pre-made sauces and ingredients have impacted the commonality of dishes as well.
Nov 27, 2021, 6:18 pm
#38
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Interesting article! Wow, 8,000 restaurants!
With the influx of HK’ers heading to San Gabriel and Monterey Park during the 90s, many excellent Cantonese restaurants popped up with what I’d assume employed Master Chefs from HK. The food wasn’t cheap, but it was excellent, and awfully similar to HK. While only speaking for myself, I’ve always found traditional Cantonese cuisine better in HK than anywhere on the mainland.
Interestingly enough, I’d also agree on the generally high quality of dim sum fare in San Francisco. There’s a phenomenon here that’s similar to what happened in Vegas during the 90s where every new casino would attract more business to the rest; this is the case in SF—every new tea house would generally be a boon for all the others. And, all the new ones are just excellent.
As with any traditional Cantonese restaurant, the more genuine dishes will be found on the Chinese only menu—traditional characters—since it’s problematic translating most of the dishes into English. Also, it isn’t uncommon to order a dish and give the Chef instructions on how you’d like it prepared, and they’ll usually know exactly what you mean.
So, in my humble opinion, the Cantonese food in SF & LA are pretty darn authentic, better than NY. Though, interestingly enough, the best Peking duck I’ve ever had was in Melbourne, if you can believe that! Of course, in my estimation, nothing compares to HK when it comes Cantonese cuisine.
Hard for me to imagine a cookbook though, and I've never really had a homemade Cantonese meal comparable to ones in the finer restaurants.
With the influx of HK’ers heading to San Gabriel and Monterey Park during the 90s, many excellent Cantonese restaurants popped up with what I’d assume employed Master Chefs from HK. The food wasn’t cheap, but it was excellent, and awfully similar to HK. While only speaking for myself, I’ve always found traditional Cantonese cuisine better in HK than anywhere on the mainland.
Interestingly enough, I’d also agree on the generally high quality of dim sum fare in San Francisco. There’s a phenomenon here that’s similar to what happened in Vegas during the 90s where every new casino would attract more business to the rest; this is the case in SF—every new tea house would generally be a boon for all the others. And, all the new ones are just excellent.
As with any traditional Cantonese restaurant, the more genuine dishes will be found on the Chinese only menu—traditional characters—since it’s problematic translating most of the dishes into English. Also, it isn’t uncommon to order a dish and give the Chef instructions on how you’d like it prepared, and they’ll usually know exactly what you mean.
So, in my humble opinion, the Cantonese food in SF & LA are pretty darn authentic, better than NY. Though, interestingly enough, the best Peking duck I’ve ever had was in Melbourne, if you can believe that! Of course, in my estimation, nothing compares to HK when it comes Cantonese cuisine.
Hard for me to imagine a cookbook though, and I've never really had a homemade Cantonese meal comparable to ones in the finer restaurants.
Nov 27, 2021, 8:47 pm
#39
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Nov 27, 2021, 8:47 pm
#40
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Nov 27, 2021, 8:51 pm
#41
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Perhaps. Or survival of those that adapt to the local conditions - just as there are upper end authentic Mexican restaurants around Greater Los Angeles, the vast majority of Mexican restaurants are straight up tacos and burritos charging half or quarter of the price of the upper end places. Some folks enjoy chop suey and order that. Chinese restaurants in the U.S. are exactly that - sell what you can make and that people order and buy on a repeat basis. Most Americans tastes are fairly plebian.
David
David
Nov 27, 2021, 9:39 pm
#42
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Perhaps. Or survival of those that adapt to the local conditions - just as there are upper end authentic Mexican restaurants around Greater Los Angeles, the vast majority of Mexican restaurants are straight up tacos and burritos charging half or quarter of the price of the upper end places. Some folks enjoy chop suey and order that. Chinese restaurants in the U.S. are exactly that - sell what you can make and that people order and buy on a repeat basis. Most Americans tastes are fairly plebian.
David
David
Nov 27, 2021, 9:45 pm
#43
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Melbourne in Australia.
Surprising, right? Peking duck is one of my favorite dishes, and I try to have it whenever I can. The last time I was in HK, I had it at the Hyatt Regency Shatin, who prepares it as well as any restaurant in HK, in my view. I’ve also had some great ones in Guangzhou, Shanghai and Taipei, but the one I had in Melbourne probably topped them all. If it weren’t for this damn pandemic, I’d book a flight there just to have it for dinner.
I found it by pure chance. While in Guangzhou, an Australian businessman recommended this restaurant that was started by a HK chef who had emigrated to Melbourne, and Peking duck was his signature dish.
Note - I've never been to Beijing, and would love to try the Peking duck there. On my to-do list.
Surprising, right? Peking duck is one of my favorite dishes, and I try to have it whenever I can. The last time I was in HK, I had it at the Hyatt Regency Shatin, who prepares it as well as any restaurant in HK, in my view. I’ve also had some great ones in Guangzhou, Shanghai and Taipei, but the one I had in Melbourne probably topped them all. If it weren’t for this damn pandemic, I’d book a flight there just to have it for dinner.
I found it by pure chance. While in Guangzhou, an Australian businessman recommended this restaurant that was started by a HK chef who had emigrated to Melbourne, and Peking duck was his signature dish.
Note - I've never been to Beijing, and would love to try the Peking duck there. On my to-do list.
Nov 27, 2021, 9:46 pm
#44
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Melbourne in Australia.
Surprising, right? Peking duck is one of my favorite dishes, and I try to have it whenever I can. The last time I was in HK, I had it at the Hyatt Regency Shatin, who prepares it as well as any restaurant in HK, in my view. I’ve also had some great ones in Guangzhou, Shanghai and Taipei, but the one I had in Melbourne probably topped them all. If it weren’t for this damn pandemic, I’d book a flight there just to have it for dinner.
I found it by pure chance. While in Guangzhou, an Australian businessman recommended this restaurant that was started by a HK chef who had emigrated to Melbourne, and Peking duck was his signature dish.
Note - I've never been to Beijing, and would love to try the Peking duck there. On my to-do list.
Surprising, right? Peking duck is one of my favorite dishes, and I try to have it whenever I can. The last time I was in HK, I had it at the Hyatt Regency Shatin, who prepares it as well as any restaurant in HK, in my view. I’ve also had some great ones in Guangzhou, Shanghai and Taipei, but the one I had in Melbourne probably topped them all. If it weren’t for this damn pandemic, I’d book a flight there just to have it for dinner.
I found it by pure chance. While in Guangzhou, an Australian businessman recommended this restaurant that was started by a HK chef who had emigrated to Melbourne, and Peking duck was his signature dish.
Note - I've never been to Beijing, and would love to try the Peking duck there. On my to-do list.
David