bhrubin

We have a wine cellar, so we likely are at the upper range of normal. Our average wines cost (purchased directly from wineries and rarely at a wholesaler near our home):

Pinot Noir: $80-100
Chardonnay: $75-90
Syrah: $85
Cabernet/Cabernet blends: $250-300
Merlot/Merlot blends: $90-110
Malbec: $75-125

We drink mostly New World wines, and we prefer aged wines (though my husband prefers younger Chards/Pinots than I do). Wines that age well tend to be much pricier, of course.

If you like more freshness or acidic wines or more fruit in your bouquet/flavor, then younger wines are the better way to go, as they are usually less expensive. If you like big powerful wines but want to avoid the harsher tannins and sulfites that often cause headaches, then I'd recommend spending a little more as you can afford on Cabernet type wines...or consider Syrahs that can be as big but not nearly as expensive.

bhrubin

I love Carmeneres and Malbecs, as well. Unfortunately, you're probably right that much of the California wine that makes it to the UK is not of the best quality...but I assure you there are some amazing California wines. Import taxes likely price them too highly, I'd guess, especially with the favoring of other Euro imports. If you visit California, however, I'd recommend them highly!

lhgreengrd1

Sadly, it's now Two and half Buck Chuck, which I've found, makes the stuff less economical than paint thinner for the main purpose for which I would normally use it.

lhgreengrd1

You might try drinking wines, rather than labels. There are some pretty amazing wines in the $30-60 range. I find it difficult to even find a New World Syrah that costs $75, let alone those which would actually be worth it. The same is true with Malbecs that cost over $100. I can only think of a handful that cost in the $75-95 range, and just about none in triple digits, with the vast preponderance of Malbecs costing $15-$60. And I'd stack the ageworthiness of most of the $45-60 Syrahs I buy with anything that costs double that range or more.

The only wines I could see paying > $100 a bottle for would be classified growth Bordeaux, Premier Cru or better Burgundies, and small domain Super Tuscans, Barolos, and Barbarescos and wines from a handful of domaines in the Rhone region.

Speaking of wine shop prices, not restaurant prices, of course.

bhrubin

So don't pay more than $100! I'm not trying to tell you what to buy or spend.

For aging, there are better wines (in my opinion) that we like better. What it's worth is relative. Compared to the comparable ageabilty of French wines, ours are much less expensive. Only American Pinot Noir IMO can't quite compete with the French red Burgundies; but other top New World wines can compete quite easily and at better price points.

Before you judge us as preferring "labels" I think you should consider the wines below--most of which I'll assume most people have never heard of before. We switch to new wineries only when we like their wines more consistently for many years more or with better prices. Whether you approve or not, these wines have tremendous history and ability to age, and that is important to us. In my opinion, top California Cabs/Syrahs age as well if not better than most Bordeaux, so we save money by sticking with California for the most part.

We also have visited every one of the below wineries as part of our extensive wine travels, as I love to see the places from where the wines come that I like to drink. I also am enrolled in the winemaking certificate program at UC Davis, so I'm a fairly serious person about wine--making it as much as drinking it.

Our wines include:

Cabernet/blends: Pahlmeyer $125, Peter Michael $175, Hundred Acre $275, Abreu $325, Colgin $350, Bryant $425, Harlan $550, also Meerlust (South Africa) $45, Woodlands (Margaret River Australia) $90

Syrahs: Saxum $85, Alban $120, Sine Qua Non $160.

Chardonnays: Aubert $80, Kongsgaard $75-175, Morlet $90, Peter Michael $100-175, also Pierro (Margaret River Australia) $75

Pinot Noirs: Aubert $90, Pahlmeyer $80, Morlet $90, Sea Smoke $65, also Felton Road (New Zealand) $65

Malbecs: Vina Cobos $100-180 (Argentina), Achaval Ferrer $125

I appreciate that not everyone spends for wine like we do. Not everyone appreciates or enjoys aged wine as much as I do (even more than my husband). Fair enough. But no need to cast stones.

lhgreengrd1

I've actually heard of ALL of those wines, and tasted most of them. You should probably put a bit more care into shopping. The Achaval Ferrer single vineyard Malbecs are easily found for $85-90. You might also try their Quimera, which is a blend that costs under $50, and IMHO, is at least as interesting as the single Fincas. The top Cobos wines can also be found for $60-80 a bottle. I could also name about 20 other Malbecs that you can get for $30-50 that I think are every bit as distinguished as the Achaval Ferrer and Cobos wines - and BTW, Achaval Ferrer is my favorite winery in Argentina, but I've never paid more than $90 a bottle for any of their single vineyard wines. - and I invariably prefer their Quimera for $40-50 a bottle. I also would recommend some other top Argentina domaines: Diamandes Winery, Bodegas Giminez Riili, Mendel, Colome, Bressia, and Altocedro. All of these are making wines at the level of Achaval Ferrer and Vina Cobos, and most of their top wines are selling for $30-60 a bottle.

As far as Syrahs go, I'd stack the Foxen or Andrew Murray single vineyard wines, which cost about $50 a bottle, against any of those you listed, for complexity, character, and ageworthiness. I might also suggest that you try a winery called The Farm Winery - which is a boutique winery in the Paso Robles area that's the pet project of Santiago Achaval, from Achaval Ferrer.

The Sine Qua Non wines, along with Colgin and Bryant Cabs, are textbook examples of wine that taste more like the barrels they are made with than the grapes. Those are three of the wineries I had in mind when I referred to labels rather than wines (I do like Harlan, though, but it's simply not worth the money they charge). I'm surprised to not see Screaming Eagle in your list as well. Give me a Chateau Montelena Estate Cab over any of those - as well as Pahlmeyer, which is another wine you're paying too much for - it can easily be found for $80 or so. I'd also prefer Dominus to any of those on your list.

I'll cut you some slack on the Pinot Noirs, because they are small-lot artisnal wines - and I do like Sea Smoke - but I'd suggest that you explore Oregon for some really fine choices that can easily be found for $60-80 a bottle. I'd start with Christom. I am also a big fan of Foxen and Dierberg in the Santa Rita Hills area, if you're a fan of Sea Smoke. Again, you can generally get some really GREAT pinots for $50-60 a bottle.

Eastbay1K

An overpriced waste of $ that is all about a name that is worth more than the wine inside the bottle.

Eastbay1K

It is one of the wine industry's best marketing successes. At the Westin Paris, it is modestly priced at € 47

Eastbay1K

Even more sadly, this is often better than the complimentary "domestic USA airline lounge pour" served these days.

Now back to our average spend at home, which is the regularly scheduled program for this thread.

lhgreengrd1

The last time I was in the Admiral's Club, they were pouring a Chilean Cab and Carmenet that were roughly $7-8 retail wines that were entirely decent.

bhrubin

It seems that because you think certain wines are better (and often less expensive) than others that you believe that everyone must agree with your assessment, and that is a preposterous idea. Just because you don't like a wine or think another is better doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.

I listed rough values/prices off the top of my head, so the exact prices I won't bother to evaluate. If certain examples of the wines mentioned can be found for a bit less money, then so be it--but that doesn't preclude that the wines we like are worth the money for us that we pay for them. While Achaval and Cobos are expensive, we also can get them through an import company that makes it very easy to purchase, so we stick with those...and we've been very happy with them.

I know all of the other wines you've also mentioned, too, and while they are, indeed, wonderful wines, we find that they often are not as consistently good or don't age as consistently as those that we have. In our judgment, we prefer the wines we get. It's just that simple. If you prefer the others more, then we think that's great. We'd never tell anyone that one wine or another is better for them; we can only evaluate the wines for ourselves and buy what we prefer to drink.

As an example, we used to get Kistler Chards and Pinots, and I actually used to more highly prefer the Pinots despite the fact that the Chards were the reason for the Kistler "fame". Over the years, as we tried others, we decided we preferred other Chards and Pinots, and so we gave up on Kistler in lieu of the other mentioned. We now get no Kistler. We used to order Araujo, too, but quickly determined that we weren't fans of those as much as others. We don't buy into name so much as whether or not we like a wine relative to another, with price being a factor if there are others that we prefer for less on a consistent basis of taste and age ability from our perspective and no one else's.

Screaming Eagle has never been one of my favorites...and for the money, we like the 100% Cabernet options from Hundred Acre, Bryant, and Colgin much better, and those are also cheaper (but still very expensive).

We don't get our wine to impress you or anyone else. We get our wines because we enjoy drinking them. We find our examples to be the best for us, though that can and will change over time, I'm sure, as it has up to this point.

gfunkdave

And that's the important thing. ^

I think that lhgreengrd1 was just suggesting potential alternatives to check out, since it seems your tastes steer to the "name brand" new world wines.

In your price range for new world Pinot noirs, what do you think of Shea and Beaux Frères?

bhrubin

I think Shea and Beaux Freres are nice pinot noirs, but IMO merely solid chardonnays that lack punch. The pinot noirs have nice fruit and bouquet on the nose (much more strawberry than I get from Sonoma), but they aren't terribly complex for me. (For me, complexity is a dance on my tongue, giving multiple sensations at the same time; for others, it likely can be different.) I also have not often liked either beyond 5-6 years of bottle age as much as I've liked others (or ours)...but it's been about a year since I last tried one. They remind me of younger and simpler Sonoma Coast versions of Williams Selyem.

exilencfc

The wine most favoured in our household normally retails for £8 but we try to bulk buy it when it's reduced. I am by no means a wine conossieur and quite happily drink several whites which retail around the £4 mark.

Reds I am a bit more picky, the one we normally have when we go to a particular restauraunt costs around £30 but would presumably be cheaper elsewhere. That said I also like the Bosnian stuff my brother brought home from Croatia which cost under a fiver.

I like to drink local wines when i'm abroad, I need to bring some Austrian stuff home with me at some point.

lhgreengrd1

Not at all - but it certainly seems as though you are drinking Parker and Wine Spectator scores.

And I will reitterate, you are WAY overpaying for Achaval Ferrer and Cobos top-end Malbecs, if you are paying $125 for those bottles.