I don't get it. Why all the the hype about Kobe/Wagyu beef?
Jun 21, 2010, 9:39 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Exactly - à chacun son goût as Canadians say! Within the last couple of years we've had the chance to sample the best beef offered by Argentina (and Australia) and have sampled Wagyu beef as well. Would we say we can't stand it? No, we're obviously not as discriminating as you. 
Yet our own preference is still grain-fed U.S. (or Alberta) beef, while realizing it's simply a matter of personal preference. We're pleased we can now buy Certified Angus Beef (a similar marketing program to Sterling Silver, which we've experienced on HAL cruises), at a market just up the road from us.
It's a worthy topic to debate, but it's doubtful that, for example, the grass-feed advocates will convince the grain-fed advocates, or vice-versa.
Yet our own preference is still grain-fed U.S. (or Alberta) beef, while realizing it's simply a matter of personal preference. We're pleased we can now buy Certified Angus Beef (a similar marketing program to Sterling Silver, which we've experienced on HAL cruises), at a market just up the road from us.
It's a worthy topic to debate, but it's doubtful that, for example, the grass-feed advocates will convince the grain-fed advocates, or vice-versa.
In the long run, it's all a matter of personal choice, and I'll admit to a memory that rarely extends further back than the last "good" steak placed before me....
Jun 21, 2010, 9:57 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 640
Best steak I ever had was in Kobe. I've had Wagyu since then in America, but its wasn't Japanese Wagyu. Also it probably wasn't cooked over the charcoal grill as most steak places in the USA use broilers.
The taste of true Kobe Beef is probably just different than Aussie Wagyu or American Wagyu (which are both hybrids) or the preparation is not replicated.
Either way, nothing has eclipsed what I had in Kobe.
The taste of true Kobe Beef is probably just different than Aussie Wagyu or American Wagyu (which are both hybrids) or the preparation is not replicated.
Either way, nothing has eclipsed what I had in Kobe.
Jun 21, 2010, 5:00 pm
#18
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I've only had Kobe beef steak once and that was when I was in Japan seven years ago and it still ranks up there as one of the best pieces of beef I've ever had.
I have had Kobe beef burgers in the US and I've never seen the hype on these. In fact, the last one I had I didn't even finish
I have had Kobe beef burgers in the US and I've never seen the hype on these. In fact, the last one I had I didn't even finish
Jun 21, 2010, 7:37 pm
#19
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While that is no doubt true, not everyone likes that particular flavor component in their beef. A typical USDA choice ribeye steak is way too fatty for me, and New York strips push it sometimes. I've never had Kobe or Wagyu, but I can't imagine enjoying it if the fat content is that high. For me beef fat's main purpose is to drip into the heat source causing flare-ups and smoke flavor that I do enjoy immensely, and adding a bit of "juiciness". I always trim all visible fat from beef before I eat it. Brazilian beef is out of this world, and if I had a fresh nearby source I would eat grass fed (or wild venison) exclusively. Pork fat is a whole different deal...
Jun 22, 2010, 12:25 am
#20
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There's two different types of fat content to beef and a clear difference between fatty beef and perfect beef with fat marbling.
The marbling should be so that when you cook the steak the marbling lubricates the meat in order to keep it naturally moist. In perfect marbling it should have dissapeared at exactly the point in time when the steak is cooked and rested. Mouthfulls of fat is an entirely different issue.
A fat free steak eg fillet might have a better eating texture but will lack taste. That's why so many fillets are cooked with sauces. A fatty steak ie rib-eye may have an inconsistant texture but also have pockets of fat. I must admit I find myself buying rib-eye and carefully removing the chunks of fat - particularly edge fat - but choose it when I see decent marbling.
The marbling should be so that when you cook the steak the marbling lubricates the meat in order to keep it naturally moist. In perfect marbling it should have dissapeared at exactly the point in time when the steak is cooked and rested. Mouthfulls of fat is an entirely different issue.
A fat free steak eg fillet might have a better eating texture but will lack taste. That's why so many fillets are cooked with sauces. A fatty steak ie rib-eye may have an inconsistant texture but also have pockets of fat. I must admit I find myself buying rib-eye and carefully removing the chunks of fat - particularly edge fat - but choose it when I see decent marbling.
Jun 22, 2010, 1:57 am
#21
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,438
A friend has offered to buy some Wagyu beef for a party we will soon be having in the states, but if the mouthfeel is really as soft and fatty tasting as mentioned here I think I will pass. I tend to like my meat lean so often order filet. Doesn't sound like it is for me. My father on the other hand likes to eat the fat on his steaks. He would probably love it.
Jun 22, 2010, 6:09 pm
#22
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Kobe is not "fatty" in the same way that a ribeye, for example, has a high amount of fat that you'd have to trim around (or eat if you're into that 
) but instead just has a higher fat content. This is said to make the meat more tender, juicy, flavorful etc.. I think the comparison to sushi grade tuna was made earlier here. The fattier tuna is outstanding, but still has to be prepared and served correctly. Just eating a big hunk of fatty tuna isn't very enticing. Kobe, if cooked perfectly, and sliced thinly, is delicious.
As far as price/value goes, well its a matter of opinion. But I think probably not worth the high price often found in restaurants.
And Kobe burgers...ridiculous.
) but instead just has a higher fat content. This is said to make the meat more tender, juicy, flavorful etc.. I think the comparison to sushi grade tuna was made earlier here. The fattier tuna is outstanding, but still has to be prepared and served correctly. Just eating a big hunk of fatty tuna isn't very enticing. Kobe, if cooked perfectly, and sliced thinly, is delicious. As far as price/value goes, well its a matter of opinion. But I think probably not worth the high price often found in restaurants.
And Kobe burgers...ridiculous.
Jun 23, 2010, 8:46 am
#23
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I have only had true Kobe beef once, in Kobe. It was awesome.
I have also had Wagyu beef, in Matsuyama (Shikoku), Tokyo and Osaka... also very good. Usually I have had it cooked medium rare, teppanyaki-style. (best with a small pile of sea salt and fried garlic!)
I don't think I'd order anything similiar in the U.S. if it was at a premium... I like good ol' KC Strip as well as anything...
I have also had Wagyu beef, in Matsuyama (Shikoku), Tokyo and Osaka... also very good. Usually I have had it cooked medium rare, teppanyaki-style. (best with a small pile of sea salt and fried garlic!)
I don't think I'd order anything similiar in the U.S. if it was at a premium... I like good ol' KC Strip as well as anything...
Last edited by johnndor; Jun 23, 2010 at 8:47 am Reason: typing to fast for my fingers!
Jun 23, 2010, 11:31 am
#24
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Exactly
I think that the issue with me is that it's simply not worth paying 2-3 times the amount of money for a regular steak than the Kobe. I do think it's good, don't get me wrong. I don't think Kobe is bad at all. In fact, it is tasty. However, when I go to a steakhouse, and the steak is $39, and then the Kobe beef is $80, when I eat Kobe, I want it to be twice as good as the regular steak. It simply isn't. Thankfully, these occasions were on someone else's dime; otherwise, I would never order the Kobe myself. Also, I don't think it's worth the money at all. It's good, but it ain't that good.
Jun 23, 2010, 4:39 pm
#25
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a lot of people seem to be complaining about paying 2-3x the amount for the steak. for me, the idea of paying 3-5x the price to eat a pedestrian steak in routh christ instead of cooking the thing at home is a sacralidge. all rc does is add butter and have a waiter tell me how wonderful it is.
now, i buy waygu raw from new york wholesaler. i cook it at home. i love it. the only enhancement i add is a moderate amount of fois gras on top to add a bit of richness.
those who complain do also complain or question exquisite Bordeaux or Burgundy(neither of which i can afford). seems they also like the wonderful steaks of joe's steak house.
now, i buy waygu raw from new york wholesaler. i cook it at home. i love it. the only enhancement i add is a moderate amount of fois gras on top to add a bit of richness.
those who complain do also complain or question exquisite Bordeaux or Burgundy(neither of which i can afford). seems they also like the wonderful steaks of joe's steak house.
Jun 23, 2010, 4:51 pm
#26
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Sounds kind of like a tri-tip.
Jun 26, 2010, 1:08 am
#27
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All steak is not created equal
As a steak lover who has probably consumed hundreds of pounds of beef, good Wagyu and Kobe are completely different than "normal," cheaper steaks. I can't fathom how they can even be compared. If anything, I suspect the restaurant either misprepared the beef or it simply wasn't labeled properly as the meats look completely different.
Great Wagyu is truly a decadent, mouth watering experience. Consistent marbling throughout the cut will result in a (fattier), juicier, and tastier dish. in addition to the fat content, the actual meat is more tender due to the daily beer drinking and massaging of the cows.
I agree that the Kobe burgers are probably more hype than anything as once the meat is ground and fat is added they can look similar. However, if you add a piece of fois gras on top of any burger, you've got a real winner.
Also, the japanese ban on beef applies to American beef going to Japan, not Japanese beef entering the US to my understanding as one of my local favorite restaurants, Cut at the Las Vegas Palazzo, serves True Japanese 100% Wagyu Beef from Saga Prefecture, Kyushu, Japan.
To try Wagyu, I suggest Shibuya at the MGM or Cut at the Palazzo as both serve some amazing beef. The Angus bone in rib eye at the Venetian's Delmonico's is a fine example of tasty American beef.
Great Wagyu is truly a decadent, mouth watering experience. Consistent marbling throughout the cut will result in a (fattier), juicier, and tastier dish. in addition to the fat content, the actual meat is more tender due to the daily beer drinking and massaging of the cows.
I agree that the Kobe burgers are probably more hype than anything as once the meat is ground and fat is added they can look similar. However, if you add a piece of fois gras on top of any burger, you've got a real winner.
Also, the japanese ban on beef applies to American beef going to Japan, not Japanese beef entering the US to my understanding as one of my local favorite restaurants, Cut at the Las Vegas Palazzo, serves True Japanese 100% Wagyu Beef from Saga Prefecture, Kyushu, Japan.
To try Wagyu, I suggest Shibuya at the MGM or Cut at the Palazzo as both serve some amazing beef. The Angus bone in rib eye at the Venetian's Delmonico's is a fine example of tasty American beef.
Jun 26, 2010, 6:17 am
#28
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Also, the japanese ban on beef applies to American beef going to Japan, not Japanese beef entering the US to my understanding as one of my local favorite restaurants, Cut at the Las Vegas Palazzo, serves True Japanese 100% Wagyu Beef from Saga Prefecture, Kyushu, Japan.
http://www.economywatch.com/in-the-n...ade-13-06.html
Jun 26, 2010, 12:34 pm
#29
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As a steak lover who has probably consumed hundreds of pounds of beef, good Wagyu and Kobe are completely different than "normal," cheaper steaks. I can't fathom how they can even be compared. If anything, I suspect the restaurant either misprepared the beef or it simply wasn't labeled properly as the meats look completely different.
Great Wagyu is truly a decadent, mouth watering experience. Consistent marbling throughout the cut will result in a (fattier), juicier, and tastier dish. in addition to the fat content, the actual meat is more tender due to the daily beer drinking and massaging of the cows.
I agree that the Kobe burgers are probably more hype than anything as once the meat is ground and fat is added they can look similar. However, if you add a piece of fois gras on top of any burger, you've got a real winner.
Also, the japanese ban on beef applies to American beef going to Japan, not Japanese beef entering the US to my understanding as one of my local favorite restaurants, Cut at the Las Vegas Palazzo, serves True Japanese 100% Wagyu Beef from Saga Prefecture, Kyushu, Japan.
To try Wagyu, I suggest Shibuya at the MGM or Cut at the Palazzo as both serve some amazing beef. The Angus bone in rib eye at the Venetian's Delmonico's is a fine example of tasty American beef.
Great Wagyu is truly a decadent, mouth watering experience. Consistent marbling throughout the cut will result in a (fattier), juicier, and tastier dish. in addition to the fat content, the actual meat is more tender due to the daily beer drinking and massaging of the cows.
I agree that the Kobe burgers are probably more hype than anything as once the meat is ground and fat is added they can look similar. However, if you add a piece of fois gras on top of any burger, you've got a real winner.
Also, the japanese ban on beef applies to American beef going to Japan, not Japanese beef entering the US to my understanding as one of my local favorite restaurants, Cut at the Las Vegas Palazzo, serves True Japanese 100% Wagyu Beef from Saga Prefecture, Kyushu, Japan.
To try Wagyu, I suggest Shibuya at the MGM or Cut at the Palazzo as both serve some amazing beef. The Angus bone in rib eye at the Venetian's Delmonico's is a fine example of tasty American beef.
Jun 26, 2010, 7:07 pm
#30
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Earlier this year I was at Meat Market, in Miami, with a friend and we ordered an American Kobe raised in Texas. The server, who I have to say was outstanding, advised us to order the steak medium, rather than the medium-rare we usually get, as the extra cooking fully breaks down the marbling in the beef. A truly high-quality Kobe shouldn't have any significant visible fat when it's served, unless there happens to be some on the outer edge.
That's the way ours came, and it was the best steak I've ever had...and back in my expense-account days I went to every high-end steak house in Manhattan. Rich, intense beef flavour, tender but not to the point where it simply dissolves...just decadent.
The waiter also mentioned that most Americans who have had both at their restaurant prefer the American Kobe to the Japanese, as it has more flavour. The American Kobe also has less of a price premium than the Japanese.
That's the way ours came, and it was the best steak I've ever had...and back in my expense-account days I went to every high-end steak house in Manhattan. Rich, intense beef flavour, tender but not to the point where it simply dissolves...just decadent.
The waiter also mentioned that most Americans who have had both at their restaurant prefer the American Kobe to the Japanese, as it has more flavour. The American Kobe also has less of a price premium than the Japanese.