BMO Fraud Prevention [USA cards]
Jan 8, 2013, 8:46 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Programs: SPG, HH, UAMP, AEPL, DC
Posts: 46
BMO Fraud Prevention [USA cards]
Having been the victim of identity theft on my AmEx Platinum card some years back, I am very sympathetic to fraud prevention efforts and certainly don't mind confirming a large or unusual charge.
However, the fraud prevention software now being used by BMO appears to be hypersensitive and badly programmed. Most recent example: a car rental preauthorization of $301 from Hertz resulted in a block on my account because it came from Oklahoma City when I was making charges elsewhere the same same day. OKC is Hertz corporate headquarters -- lots of charges are posted there for car rentals both inside and outside the US. And this is not the first time this has happened with BMO DC -- it also occurred with an Internet purchase from Macys that was billed from a central office outside my home state.
My account is otherwise in perfectly good standing -- well under my monthly spend limits, no current or recent past due balances, etc., etc. When I ask the CSRs about this practice I get the usual customer service doublespeak.
Has anyone else had this experience?
This may be the last straw for me with Diners. I stuck with BMO because I like having a card with a chip and PIN for travel outside the US, but if they are unable to authorize routine travel transactions like car rentals without blocking my account and contacting me first, the card becomes too unreliable for travel use.
However, the fraud prevention software now being used by BMO appears to be hypersensitive and badly programmed. Most recent example: a car rental preauthorization of $301 from Hertz resulted in a block on my account because it came from Oklahoma City when I was making charges elsewhere the same same day. OKC is Hertz corporate headquarters -- lots of charges are posted there for car rentals both inside and outside the US. And this is not the first time this has happened with BMO DC -- it also occurred with an Internet purchase from Macys that was billed from a central office outside my home state.
My account is otherwise in perfectly good standing -- well under my monthly spend limits, no current or recent past due balances, etc., etc. When I ask the CSRs about this practice I get the usual customer service doublespeak.
Has anyone else had this experience?
This may be the last straw for me with Diners. I stuck with BMO because I like having a card with a chip and PIN for travel outside the US, but if they are unable to authorize routine travel transactions like car rentals without blocking my account and contacting me first, the card becomes too unreliable for travel use.
Jan 8, 2013, 3:12 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,932
No, and furthermore I make charges on it when I travel, without notifying them of travel, and yet never have any fraud shutdowns happen. (Overseas, though, I only use it for car rentals plus where I need chip + PIN. The car rentals, though, are with the same two companies -- mostly Avis, very occasionally Hertz -- all the time so maybe they can figure out that it "fits my pattern"?)
I don't think it's anything as simple as charges made to somewhere else than you are. Everyone buys stuff online, including sometimes from merchants that are far away from where you live. There's no reason I see why that alone should cause a fraud alert.
Now, it may be badly programmed, but it's not as simply programmed as your anecdotes would imply, because if it were then everyone renting with Hertz would be screaming here that their card keeps getting shut down.
How long (and how often) have you been making car rental reservations with your DC card? Since I think it's the only card I have that has "always primary" collision coverage, it's the card I always use for car rentals (unless I get full insurance coverage on a particular rental, which is very rarely). So DC is used to seeing me rent cards over and over and over again. Is it used to seeing that with you, or did they see the rental car reservation as a "change from pattern" not just because of the state it was billed from?
(I'm assuming that BMO inherited usage pattern info from Citi. So perhaps those of us who've been maintaining reasonably consistent purchasing behavior since the Citi days work better with their programming that newer customers or customers who've changed what they use their card for recently?)
... Also, not having really been a victom of identity theft before, I wouldn't know this: Did your identity theft expereience with the Amex Plat make it onto your credit report? If so, banks other than Amex could have your account flagged (appropriately or not) for "additional scrutiny" of some (unknown) kind because of that.
I don't think it's anything as simple as charges made to somewhere else than you are. Everyone buys stuff online, including sometimes from merchants that are far away from where you live. There's no reason I see why that alone should cause a fraud alert.
Now, it may be badly programmed, but it's not as simply programmed as your anecdotes would imply, because if it were then everyone renting with Hertz would be screaming here that their card keeps getting shut down.
How long (and how often) have you been making car rental reservations with your DC card? Since I think it's the only card I have that has "always primary" collision coverage, it's the card I always use for car rentals (unless I get full insurance coverage on a particular rental, which is very rarely). So DC is used to seeing me rent cards over and over and over again. Is it used to seeing that with you, or did they see the rental car reservation as a "change from pattern" not just because of the state it was billed from?
(I'm assuming that BMO inherited usage pattern info from Citi. So perhaps those of us who've been maintaining reasonably consistent purchasing behavior since the Citi days work better with their programming that newer customers or customers who've changed what they use their card for recently?)
... Also, not having really been a victom of identity theft before, I wouldn't know this: Did your identity theft expereience with the Amex Plat make it onto your credit report? If so, banks other than Amex could have your account flagged (appropriately or not) for "additional scrutiny" of some (unknown) kind because of that.
Jan 9, 2013, 11:01 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PBI
Programs: DL 2.8 MM/PM, AA MM/GLD, Marriott LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,746
I just received a snailmail letter that my card is shut down for purchases-not due to a suspicious charge, but stemming from a conversation with a phone rep.
I had called last week to check my balance to see whether any payment was due (a credit should have brought it to around zero but i wanted to be sure.)
The automated system asked for a pin. Since I have never had one, i asked for a rep, answered all of their questions, but then was told I still needed the pin I had set up (um, sorry, really have never had a pin on this acct, just login and password.); we could not just re-set it. I told the agent I'd call back to discuss further when I had more time...then today received the letter that my card was shut down. So- why could they not have sent a new PIN with that letter?
While I applaud attempts for card security, my ability to answer their questions about SS#, last purchase venue/amount and personal other details has always been sufficient for any other credit card co./bank. What a PITA.
I had called last week to check my balance to see whether any payment was due (a credit should have brought it to around zero but i wanted to be sure.)
The automated system asked for a pin. Since I have never had one, i asked for a rep, answered all of their questions, but then was told I still needed the pin I had set up (um, sorry, really have never had a pin on this acct, just login and password.); we could not just re-set it. I told the agent I'd call back to discuss further when I had more time...then today received the letter that my card was shut down. So- why could they not have sent a new PIN with that letter?
While I applaud attempts for card security, my ability to answer their questions about SS#, last purchase venue/amount and personal other details has always been sufficient for any other credit card co./bank. What a PITA.
Jan 9, 2013, 11:11 am
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I just received a snailmail letter that my card is shut down for purchases-not due to a suspicious charge, but stemming from a conversation with a phone rep.
I had called last week to check my balance to see whether any payment was due (a credit should have brought it to around zero but i wanted to be sure.)
The automated system asked for a pin. Since I have never had one, i asked for a rep, answered all of their questions, but then was told I still needed the pin I had set up (um, sorry, really have never had a pin on this acct, just login and password.); we could not just re-set it. I told the agent I'd call back to discuss further when I had more time...then today received the letter that my card was shut down. So- why could they not have sent a new PIN with that letter?
While I applaud attempts for card security, my ability to answer their questions about SS#, last purchase venue/amount and personal other details has always been sufficient for any other credit card co./bank. What a PITA.
I had called last week to check my balance to see whether any payment was due (a credit should have brought it to around zero but i wanted to be sure.)
The automated system asked for a pin. Since I have never had one, i asked for a rep, answered all of their questions, but then was told I still needed the pin I had set up (um, sorry, really have never had a pin on this acct, just login and password.); we could not just re-set it. I told the agent I'd call back to discuss further when I had more time...then today received the letter that my card was shut down. So- why could they not have sent a new PIN with that letter?
While I applaud attempts for card security, my ability to answer their questions about SS#, last purchase venue/amount and personal other details has always been sufficient for any other credit card co./bank. What a PITA.
If you don't have a PIN, ask for one. You will receive a pre-selected PIN in the mail and can then call in and change it.
If your call, which would have been recorded, was reviewed as it likely was, and did not make sense, that would result in a block.
Given that the CC issuer bears 100% fraud loss liability, it's not odd that they are careful about odd fact patterns (which could include saying that you would call back, but not calling back quite shortly).
Jan 9, 2013, 2:55 pm
#5
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
I do not recognize this. I have a PIN for use with the EMV chip, but I have never even opened the envelope and never been asked for one when calling.
My account was locked recently because of two unusual transactions. They claim to have tried to reach me but my "voicemail was full". I do not recognize the number they called, but it may have been our last home landline number. They could not explain why they had not called either of the other two telephone numbers on file.
My account was locked recently because of two unusual transactions. They claim to have tried to reach me but my "voicemail was full". I do not recognize the number they called, but it may have been our last home landline number. They could not explain why they had not called either of the other two telephone numbers on file.
Jan 11, 2013, 3:46 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NYCEWR
Programs: MP(1K) Million Miler, Marriott Plat
Posts: 478
I do not recognize this. I have a PIN for use with the EMV chip, but I have never even opened the envelope and never been asked for one when calling.
My account was locked recently because of two unusual transactions. They claim to have tried to reach me but my "voicemail was full". I do not recognize the number they called, but it may have been our last home landline number. They could not explain why they had not called either of the other two telephone numbers on file.
My account was locked recently because of two unusual transactions. They claim to have tried to reach me but my "voicemail was full". I do not recognize the number they called, but it may have been our last home landline number. They could not explain why they had not called either of the other two telephone numbers on file.
I have had the card replaced twice because of two different instances of fraud (foreign charges) which BMO caught in the first instance and I caught in the second. I haven't had the card shut down since BMO took over, but I did have it shut down at least twice with Citi when I made charges out of the U.S. even though I notified them about travel.
Dec 28, 2013, 1:34 pm
#7
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PBI
Programs: DL 2.8 MM/PM, AA MM/GLD, Marriott LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,746
They would never send a new PIN with the letter. Security 101.
If you don't have a PIN, ask for one. You will receive a pre-selected PIN in the mail and can then call in and change it.
If your call, which would have been recorded, was reviewed as it likely was, and did not make sense, that would result in a block.
Given that the CC issuer bears 100% fraud loss liability, it's not odd that they are careful about odd fact patterns (which could include saying that you would call back, but not calling back quite shortly).
If you don't have a PIN, ask for one. You will receive a pre-selected PIN in the mail and can then call in and change it.
If your call, which would have been recorded, was reviewed as it likely was, and did not make sense, that would result in a block.
Given that the CC issuer bears 100% fraud loss liability, it's not odd that they are careful about odd fact patterns (which could include saying that you would call back, but not calling back quite shortly).
Fast forward about 8 months. No problem activating my new card In October. However, my card was declined when I went to rent a car about 10 days ago. Declined again today, so I called DC. The agent I spoke with said my account was blocked due to the problem earlier in the year. I explained that it had been unblocked (and I have used it successfully since..) and he denied that it was ever unblocked. He stated that in order to unblock my account they will need to do a hard credit pull.
Really have no interest in wasting a hard credit pull on this card. Definitely time for this cardholder since 1987 to say bye-bye.....
Dec 28, 2013, 11:21 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CA
Programs: BA, AA, United
Posts: 429
I just googled it for you.
https://www.creditkarma.com/article/...soft_inquiries
http://www.myfico.com/crediteducatio...dit-score.aspx
https://www.creditkarma.com/article/...soft_inquiries
http://www.myfico.com/crediteducatio...dit-score.aspx
Dec 29, 2013, 9:36 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,932
As is this thread. It's about issues with the BMO (Bank of Montreal) Diners Club card, which is the US and Canada versions only.
Diners Club is a worldwide franchise system, where in different countries different banks issue the card, and each bank sets their own policies and operates their own distinct version of Diners Club.
In general, threads in this forum may be about any of the Diners Club cards anywhere, but the issues in a particular thread may be specific to only one issuer (in this case BMO).
Diners Club is a worldwide franchise system, where in different countries different banks issue the card, and each bank sets their own policies and operates their own distinct version of Diners Club.
In general, threads in this forum may be about any of the Diners Club cards anywhere, but the issues in a particular thread may be specific to only one issuer (in this case BMO).
Jan 5, 2014, 2:42 pm
#12
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Programs: SPG/Marriott Lifetime Gold, Amtrak Guest Rewards, UA Silver
Posts: 536
Jan 7, 2014, 5:46 pm
#13
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PBI
Programs: DL 2.8 MM/PM, AA MM/GLD, Marriott LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,746
I also pointed out that if the account had not been unblocked, then how did I now have a pin for it (which was set up by the agent who had unblocked the account for me).
I certainly appreciate their fraud prevention activities, but this has required far too much time/hassle, especially when compared to the ease with which other companies (Chase, AmEx) handle fraud protection scenarios.
