Korean Air / DELTA Reduces Codeshare Operation in S13
Aug 27, 2013, 11:33 am
#46
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Not a problem from me, being a OneWorld koolaider-we can use KE.^
Kind of how CX is with OneWorld. That being said, CX and BA are getting a little closer and CX & AA have been doing a better job integrating alliances as well over the past few years. If CX were to start DFW, that would certainly help as well.
^
1)DOJ is trying to block the merger. They have already stated they tried to negotiate with AA/US and basically there is no other way to satisfy their (DOJ's) demands short of blocking the merger.
2)I agree on the second part.
Why are carriers such as QR joining OneWorld then?
Why has MH stated that joining OneWorld has helped its bottom line(especially on the revenue department)?
OneWorld is a bit of a "loose" Alliance, but nonetheless, there are advantages of being in an alliance.
IMHO, KE would be in a better position. Along with JL and CX, KE being in OneWorld would be a powerhouse in Asia.
^
2)I agree on the second part.
Alliances are yesterday's strategy. OW and *A aren't going to bend over backwards for a lone-wolf KE any more than ST will. KE would be no better off in OW, but outside the AA/JL JV, than they are today and AA wouldn't be eager to encourage KE joining as a competitor. Ditto for UA/ANA.
Why has MH stated that joining OneWorld has helped its bottom line(especially on the revenue department)? OneWorld is a bit of a "loose" Alliance, but nonetheless, there are advantages of being in an alliance.
IMHO, KE would be in a better position. Along with JL and CX, KE being in OneWorld would be a powerhouse in Asia.
Aug 27, 2013, 11:47 am
#47
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NYC/LA
Programs: DL Plat, AA Plat Pro, Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond Amb
Posts: 7,474
B/c many people aren't just going to East Asia, MNL, BKK or SIN? And unless your final destination is a city in China, I don't consider CZ and MU viable b/c international to international transit in mainland China is still a bit of a pain.
Aug 27, 2013, 12:17 pm
#48
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
I'd go so far as to question the value that KE really brings to SkyTeam, absent a JV with DL. It is out of the way for most connections from Europe and can only be seen as competition to any ambitions from the Chinese carriers to crack the TPAC and Asia-Europe trade. KE has a place in ST, but it isn't in calling the shots.
Aug 27, 2013, 12:32 pm
#49
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York, western US
Programs: DM/3MM
Posts: 4,246
I hope DL doesn't think that the Chinese airlines are a substitute for KE, for those making connections. I know a lot of people who won't fly into China unless that is their final destination (for reasons real or perceived). Overall, most folks I know have no problem connect in Seoul, but see connecting in China as having potentially a high hassle factor. Plus the fact that Chinese airlines are not always well regarded (again, this could be more perception than fact).
Aug 27, 2013, 12:39 pm
#51
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Why are QR allegedly discussing a JV with BA for the Kangaroo routes? Why did QF dump BA (and ignore CX) for EK? Why is AB in bed with EY? The growth of JVs and cross-ownership has been a far more important trend than QR joining OW.
MH had nowhere to go but up.
Can you be a powerhouse in Asia without being a powerhouse in China? I'm skeptical. The combined lift of JL, CX, and KE still looks to lag that of CZ. And both CZ and MU carry more international passengers than JL, which really is very Japan-focused in terms of passenger volume.
Can you be a powerhouse in Asia without being a powerhouse in China? I'm skeptical. The combined lift of JL, CX, and KE still looks to lag that of CZ. And both CZ and MU carry more international passengers than JL, which really is very Japan-focused in terms of passenger volume.
Aug 27, 2013, 12:48 pm
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
The only problem with this line of argument is that East Asia and China are where KE excels.
Aug 27, 2013, 1:15 pm
#53
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,844
One thing that I am surprised no one has said here yet. Obviously DL feels comfortable telling other ST members "it's our way or the highway", as ST needs DL for US coverage as much as (if not more than) DL needs ST and it feels that it can get away with it, there soon being only 3 legacy major airlines in the US and only three alliances -- one each, no more, no less. However, if the DoJ blocks the US and AA merger, though it's an incredibly slim possibility, US could move to greener pastures from *A to ST and thus provide an alternative to other ST airlines for US coverage. Likely would take years and start as one-on-one interline and codeshare agreements first, but it is likely that after the merger with AA blocked US would be looking for ways - any way - to get past the dead-end where it is now. Thoughts? Or is this just too far out there?
DL's hubs and focus cities are much more complementary to KE.
Aug 27, 2013, 1:43 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,203
For international partners, using US as the feed carrier makes zero sense. At LAX/SFO/ORD/DFW/JFK/EWR/ATL/IAD/SEA and other major international gateways US provides very little feed. PHL/CLT/PHX are just not major hubs when you are taking about international carriers outside of North America serving them.
DL's hubs and focus cities are much more complementary to KE.
DL's hubs and focus cities are much more complementary to KE.
Re: US, however, you missed LAS. KE does already have a 747 (at least, so it's been on the days I've seen it there) to LAS daily I believe, and could easily ramp it up.
Aug 27, 2013, 1:50 pm
#55
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
US barely serves LAS anymore. They only fly to CLT, PHL, DCA, and PHX from there and KE already serves IAD. DL actually serves more destinations from LAS than US.
Aug 27, 2013, 2:19 pm
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
Aug 27, 2013, 2:21 pm
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
How many destinations are left that DL does not serve in Asia that are actually worthwhile the $$$ invested?
HAN or SGN? You think DL is at all interested in ATL/DTW/SEA-HAN? Trashy yields much? Or better yet: ATL-PNH???
Look on a map. There are not that many Asia destinations in the first place.
HAN or SGN? You think DL is at all interested in ATL/DTW/SEA-HAN? Trashy yields much? Or better yet: ATL-PNH???
Look on a map. There are not that many Asia destinations in the first place.
Aug 27, 2013, 2:25 pm
#59
used to be 'Flyfarfar'
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SE
Programs: DL, AA, SPG, MR, HGP, IHG
Posts: 660
Delta's Official Response on the KE / DL Codeshare flight changes
I obtained an official response from Delta Corporate and shared it over at my blog which you can read about here.
Aug 27, 2013, 2:30 pm
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
