Virgin FF Program is Stingy on Miles and MQM So Don't Break Out the Champagne Yet
I had a look at the Virgin Atlantic FF program. Seems they give reduced miles for the cheapest fares, and award points (their MQM equivalent for purposes of attaining status ) based on a zone system and fare class paid (e.g., all transatlantic flights flown in a particular fare class would get the same number of points for status purposes.)
Of course we hope that Delta will do with Virgin what it does with its other joint venture partners (KL, AZ, AF) - award full miles and MQMs regardless of fare class, and discourage Europeans from joining Skymiles by placing surcharges on Europe originating award tickets.
However, I suspect that the Virgin Atlantic program may have more US members as a proportion of total membership than does Flying Blue and the AZ program. The European award surcharge would likely not deter the US based Virgin Atlantic FF members from joining Skymiles. So, I fear Delta might go the route with Virgin that it has with other non-joint venture Skyteam members - reduced miles and MQMs for cheaper fares on Virgin Atlantic.
Since Delta actually owns 49% of VS I see us getting full mileage credit, and having the VS FF program changed to more closely match SkyPesos in terms of earnings. I don't think that Delta would invest $300+ million into a company (essentially just for gate space at LHR) so that it can turn around and discourage medallions from flying the new routes it invested in.
Looking at SQ's FF program and VS's FF program their mileage earnings seem similar. Full fare and discounted coach get 100%, Deeply discounted coach gets 50% and super deep discount (I assume group fares) coach gets 10%. VS has a similar earning structure that the equivalent of our YBMHKQ gets full "tier points" for their ticket, and LUTE get 1 point less. My assumptions is that Delta will change the Virgin FF program to more closely match SkyPesos in terms of earnings and offerings (looking at the Gold offerings at virgin it is kinda crappy) because right now you can't directly translate earnings from Virgin to Delta. I mean "Tier Points" are similar to segments, however if you are someone who makes their status on MQMs and not segments then that does you no good.
To be honest this isn't something I would lose any sleep over.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see DL match that. VA is a similar joint venture, non-SkyTeam partner and we only earn 50% mileage/MQM on VA metal on reduced fares, even if its a DL coded flight. Of course DL doesn't own 49% of VA...
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL match that. VA is a similar joint venture, non-SkyTeam partner and we only earn 50% mileage/MQM on VA metal on reduced fares, even if its a DL coded flight. Of course DL doesn't own 49% of VA...
Remember that Virgin America and Virgin Australia are two completely different airlines from Virgin Atlantic. Virgin group only has a 25% share in Virgin America, however they do have full ownership of Virgin Australia. My guess is that unless they also become ST partners we will not see anything from them.
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I would gladly pay 100k Skymiles +$1300 YQ to fly r/t SFO-LHR in VS J. This is a major improvement in J product and if award inventory is good it really gives you a lot more options.
This is an equivalent deal to what AAdvantage members get with BA so for me I see this as a major positive for Skymiles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLYflyer
I would gladly pay 100k Skymiles +$1300 YQ to fly r/t SFO-LHR in VS J. This is a major improvement in J product and if award inventory is good it really gives you a lot more options.
This is an equivalent deal to what AAdvantage members get with BA so for me I see this as a major positive for Skymiles.
This could be viewed as the equivalent of an upgrade from any or most coach fares, but it costs twice as many miles and doesn't earn MQMs or RDMs. When viewed this way, it's not a good deal compared to UA or AA upgrades into international business class, but might be better for some people than DL's M+ policy.
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Virgin Atlantic's FF program is best viewed as a discounted flight ticket program given the fees and taxes they charge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTJoyce
Virgin group only has a 25% share in Virgin America, however they do have full ownership of Virgin Australia.
Not correct - Virgin Group only has 25% of Virgin Australia as well. Singapore Airlines owns 10%, Etihad owns 10%, Air New Zealand owns roughly 20%, with the remaining 35% traded on the Australian Stock Exchange.
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Why do you think DL will get a say in changing Flying Club? They're a 49% shareholder.
I don't love Flying Club - in fact it's distinctly average - but I don't see why you are expecting DL to be able to make large scale management changes to the structure of VS. They don't own it outright. This is not a takeover.
(For your info VA is V Australia. VS is Virgin Atlantic and VX is Virgin America).
Not correct - Virgin Group only has 25% of Virgin Australia as well. Singapore Airlines owns 10%, Etihad owns 10%, Air New Zealand owns roughly 20%, with the remaining 35% traded on the Australian Stock Exchange.
So it does, that is what I get for using Wikipedia (Virgin Group article) as a source.
@Jenbel: A 49% shareholder with 3 seats on the board does give them a bit of weight. Branson has the final word on everything, however in a recent interview he did with NPR (before the SQ share sale was announced) he made it pretty clear that he didn't really care how the airline was operated so long as it continued to turn a profit so he could continue to dump money into his green aviation projects, and would do basically anything in his power to keep the airline alive (including selling off Virgin Records). SQ sat back as a silent investor and let Branson do whatever he wanted and made no input, however like I said before I don't think Delta is going to drop $360 million on a share in an airline and then make no changes to increase profit from that airline, just so they can increase their TATL flight market share.
Yes, they have three seats, but I would imagine they'll be more interested in strategic direction and economies of shared working practices at shared airports than fiddling around with FFPs. I don't see an upside to them changing that. They certainly won't be giving up the revenue they get on award tickets - that's the European model for FFPs.
Yes, they have three seats, but I would imagine they'll be more interested in strategic direction and economies of shared working practices at shared airports than fiddling around with FFPs. I don't see an upside to them changing that.
I would tend to agree that DL isn't going to spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about the FFPs, I'm not sure that there won't be some changes. If you have a JV with full earning & burning reciprocity, but divergent rules, you create arbitrage opportunities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenbel
They certainly won't be giving up the revenue they get on award tickets - that's the European model for FFPs.
But the question is whether DL FFers are subject to the surcharges for US-originating flights.
Personally, I'd expect to see some level of alignment, or else the institution of other restrictions (residency restrictions, preferential availability for "own" members, etc) to combat arbitrage. I wouldn't be surprised to see VS allow full earnings on cheap flights though, since this would not only align with DL but also BA.
just wait until the average fares skyrocket to london after this monopoly behavior
I hardly think that combining two carriers with something like 3% of available LHR slots constitutes monopoly behavior. This ATI would result in no new monopoly markets and reduces competition in only two markets. Of those two markets, NYC retains service to LHR on 4 carriers/JVs (counting AA/BA and DL/VS as a single carrier). DL drops from 3 carriers/JVs to 2, with AA/BA retaining double the frequencies and what is likely double the capacity of DL/VS.
