SWU trouble // NPRS

c_d · Nov 19, 12, 10:24 am

Hello fellow FT'lers,

I have a quick questions regarding some SWU I encountered in TLV yesterday. I was confirmed on a SWU upgrade util check-in and was then downgraded to Y. My upgraded seat was given to a Delta flight attendant with the abbreviation "NRPS" printed all over it. I was standing right next to it, the group of vacationeer FA's and me were processed by the same agent at the same time. No further explanation was provided by the gate agent.

I always thought that NRPS is no different as NRSA apart from being confirmed at Y and upgraded to BE when "positive space" is available. I do not think that a confirmed SWU-upgrade is positive space and suspect some fishy business took place. Did I have had a date with "sheena" or is there anything regarding NPRS I don't yet fully understand?

rylan · Nov 19, 12, 10:34 am

Not sure why your seat would be given to someone else... you had a confirmed seat.

The Positive Space means they are guaranteed a seat. Usually this is from a crew repositioning where they must be somewhere at a certain time for DL travel and not a personal trip/vacation. No idea why they would be put into BE over you, unless there is some contractual obligation between DL and the FA.

I think you have a valid complaint and I would not hesitate to contact DL about it. You paid a premium for a (presumably) M fare ticket in order to use your SWU and having your confirmed seat pulled is not acceptable. Some serious compensation is in order.

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 10:39 am

I would assume that any FA flying as non revenue positive space would be allocated a seat in coach. Maybe there were special circumstances here, but if so, I would think that the OP would be owed downgrade compensation by DL and the best possible treatment on board, such as his/her own row in possible, drinks from BE, an offer of the BE amenity kit and a free headset, etc.

It sounds like the GA just did the downgrade without much apology. This is wrong as the SWU is a confirmed upgrade that the passenger has paid for. The OP suggests that BE was confirmed in advance, maybe at the time the M+ fare was selected, so this doesn't seem to be a matter of the OP not getting the upgrade at the gate.

ADDED. I wonder why the GA decided to downgrade the OP rather than some other BE passenger. OP is a DM. Weren't there any upgraded PMs on the flight? Did more than one of the FAs get a seat in BE, which I assume was full?

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 10:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rylan

Not sure why your seat would be given to someone else... you had a confirmed seat.

The Positive Space means they are guaranteed a seat. Usually this is from a crew repositioning where they must be somewhere at a certain time for DL travel and not a personal trip/vacation. No idea why they would be put into BE over you, unless there is some contractual obligation between DL and the FA.

I think you have a valid complaint and I would not hesitate to contact DL about it. You paid a premium for a (presumably) M fare ticket in order to use your SWU and having your confirmed seat pulled is not acceptable. Some serious compensation is in order.

I think positive space can sometimes be used to fly an employee home if there's a death in the family or something similar, rather than just asking them to go nonrev standby at the highest priority they can request.

Positive space would mean a reservation for the flight, and "must fly" status would indicate that the employee get on the flight even if it means that a revenue passenger must be IDBed.

c_d · Nov 19, 12, 10:55 am

Thank you for your explanations. I used the "vacationeer" term because I was standing next to that group of FA's for quite some time and they went on and on about how much military was there on the road to Jerusalem and how many checkpoints they had at the Dead Sea.

I also forgot to mention in my first post that my DL.com shows the SWU as closed and my trip posted as:

"NOV 18 2012 TLV ATL
DL 0269 Tel Aviv, IL To Atlanta, US
Class Paid/Flown:B/Z"

Again thank you for educating me and I will contact DL. Maybe we all are equal but the the "DL family" is even more equal.

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 11:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_d

Thank you for your explanations. I used the "vacationeer" term because I was standing next to that group of FA's for quite some time and they went on and on about how much military was there on the road to Jerusalem and how many checkpoints they had at the Dead Sea.

I also forgot to mention in my first post that my DL.com shows the SWU as closed and my trip posted as:

"NOV 18 2012 TLV ATL
DL 0269 Tel Aviv, IL To Atlanta, US
Class Paid/Flown:B/Z"

Again thank you for educating me and I will contact DL. Maybe we all are equal but the the "DL family" is even more equal.

Did the GA give you a boarding pass for the coach seat? I hope you have kept it. Having the flight post as B/Z looks suspiciously like an unofficial downgrade.

If there were a bunch of vacationing FAs, did all of them sit in BE or were all but the one who was given your seat sitting in coach?

motytrah · Nov 19, 12, 11:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rylan

No idea why they would be put into BE over you, unless there is some contractual obligation between DL and the FA.

I think you have a valid complaint and I would not hesitate to contact DL about it. You paid a premium for a (presumably) M fare ticket in order to use your SWU and having your confirmed seat pulled is not acceptable. Some serious compensation is in order.

FA's don't have a contract. The PMNW had a contract. I've read it. It didn't have any BE provisions. The pilots do have a contract, I recall there are cases when pilots get J seats. I can't think of a case where the FA would get J instead of Y however.

c_d · Nov 19, 12, 11:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

Did the GA give you a boarding pass for the coach seat? I hope you have kept it. Having the flight post as B/Z looks suspiciously like an unofficial downgrade.

If there were a bunch of vacationing FAs, did all of them sit in BE or were all but the one who was given your seat sitting in coach?

I still have all boarding passes.

All of them were assigned seats in BE. One male FA however was at first seated at the upper deck but send down to coach afterwards maybe some 45 minutes in-flight. I overheard they had a hugely overweight passenger who did not fit in the Y seat and they re-accommodated somehow.

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 11:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by motytrah

FA's don't have a contract. The PMNW had a contract. I've read it. It didn't have any BE provisions. The pilots do have a contract, I recall there are cases when pilots get J seats. I can't think of a case where the FA would get J instead of Y however.

This is my impression because I know that on the administrative/management side of DL, an employee needs to have a quite high level position to fly BE/FC for company business.

DiverDave · Nov 19, 12, 11:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_d

Again thank you for educating me and I will contact DL. Maybe we all are equal but the the "DL family" is even more equal.

Recommend you call the Delta customer service number in Atlanta.

New Customer Care Call Center opens in ATL Today

Options may have changed. Also, last time I called, I entered my Skymiles information and ended up with the Diamond Desk. They told me that entering the SM info automatically redirected the call to them.

Anyway, I've had good results with them. I hope you got a decent coach seat, and hope you get some good compensation.

David

rylan · Nov 19, 12, 11:07 am

OP is getting hosed. Means the downgrade was not reissued properly and the SWU was closed out with the system thinking he flew in BE.

OP, you may have to call the ATL service recovery center for this one and/or escalate. First, your SWU needs to be reinstated as it was improperly taken for a flight you did not get upgraded on. Second, I'd be looking for monetary compensation in the difference between your very expensive B ticket and the lowest coach fare at the time you booked the ticket. Third, miles compensation for the poor handling. I'd also be asking for an SWU usable on ANY fare because of this.

Personally I would not've just boarded without an serious explanation. Did the GA say anything about a reason for this? Were you given an official boarding pass with your new seat? Were you seated in EC or farther back? Any other apologies or anything from the flight crew or were they nto even made aware?

From the info given here, I can't think of ANY reason why an FA would be given a BE seat causing a DM to be downgraded.

This would be a great thread for one of the new DL social ambassadors to step in and offer to investigate. Or hopefully another insider can look up the flight details since it is from yesterday.

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 11:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_d

I still have all boarding passes.

All of them were assigned seats in BE. One male FA however was at first seated at the upper deck but send down to coach afterwards maybe some 45 minutes in-flight. I overheard they had a hugely overweight passenger who did not fit in the Y seat and they re-accommodated somehow.

I would make a huge complaint to DL. This sounds like the GA willfully gave BE seats to all the nonrevs. Did you notice any other passengers being downgraded?

Maybe the FAs were allowed to fly home as space positive from vacations because of the military build-up that's being reported as a possible prelude to war. Has a state department warning been issued for Israel? Still, NRPS is not the same as "must fly BE."

c_d · Nov 19, 12, 11:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverDave

Recommend you call the Delta customer service number in Atlanta.

New Customer Care Call Center opens in ATL Today

Options may have changed. Also, last time I called, I entered my Skymiles information and ended up with the Diamond Desk. They told me that entering the SM info automatically redirected the call to them.

Anyway, I've had good results with them. I hope you got a decent coach seat, and hope you get some good compensation.

David

Haha thank you Sir. I had a seat first row EC which is pretty much the worst EC seat in the fleet. All carts bump into you, and most pax walking to the restroom tend to stick their bottom in your face. As DL seems to enforce the "be seated while in IL airspace", a small turmoil started when the seat belt sign was off and I had an elderly lady running for the restroom falling on me. The remainder of the flight I was enjoying the show of the crying baby in the bassinet.

Oh almost forgot: I don't know why but many pax used by IFE display as handle - they probably though it was not a swinging construction. Anyway, they slammed the metal arm right on my knee when they walked by.

daveland · Nov 19, 12, 12:13 pm

Just trying to fully understand ... your boarding pass shows a seat in BE and they verbally instructed you what seat (or hand wrote it) you should take in coach?

I actually hope thy hand wrote it as ultimate proof of Shena, but in either scenario, the GA had to know what they were doing - which was taking PAYMENT 9in form of SWU) for BE and providing you with a coach seat. Essentially theft in my book. And Delta should not only compensate you but also take action against that GA.

MSPeconomist · Nov 19, 12, 12:20 pm

I understand that the OP has a new boarding pass that was printed by the GA, which raises the question of how a GA can arbitrarily downgrade a confirmed BE passenger and not generate compensation during the process. I would hope that the software GAs use requires them to document the reasons for any such involuntary downgrades. (Actually, I would hope that the software would have prevented the GA from doing this without approval from at least a redcoat if not the station manager, but the GA was obviously able to do it and I don't know whether TLV has redcoats available around the gate area.)