GTITAN

Greetings All:

As posted in the UA Forum, UA is going to add unlimited complimentary domestic upgrades starting next year for all elite levels.

Link here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...l#post12610619

This is very interesting indeed. DL's "ace in the hole" has always been upgrades for all elites at every level. Seems like a game changer to me.

How do you think this impacts DL?

Safe Travels.

Jumpgate

DL used to be able to defend it's weak PMU by saying that, at least, it has unlimited domestic upgrades. For someone with my travel habits (95% domestic) it was a good argument - I'd rather sit up front 95% of the time and have a hard time on the 5% international than sit in back 95% of the time and up front 5%.

Now they can't use that argument anymore. Due to recent changes at UA and AA, DL's weak PMU is starting to stick out like a sore thumb.

I'm hoping they change it - who knows?

DLdweeb

Seems like UA is matching DL domestic upgrade policy. Since unlimited domestic upgrades is about as high as you can get, I don't know that DL will do anything to respond since they are there already. Don't think it's a game changer yet.

GTITAN

Yeah, the only thing as noted in the post above, AND THIS IS NOT A BASH DL POST, is with PMs that might want SWUs that can be used on lower fares, but were loathe to give up complimentary upgrades, and for whom the AA route structure would not work. Depending on the contours, this might start people thinking IHMO as UA's route structure is pretty good.

Will be interesting ...

AndyTLe

In the announcement, UA tops DL by including Hawaii but DL includes: Bermuda, Canada, Central and South America (Non-BE), the Caribbean
and Mexico. Interesting to read that not all UA Elites are for this change.

RobOnLI

A few comments...

1. This appears to be upgrades to UA's Economy Plus (E+) cabin. This is not upgrades to first class as far as I can tell in the "United PR"'s first post announcing the unlimted upgrades. If that's the case, I believe DL's first class is "better" than UA's E+ but someone I'm sure will post a comprehensive comparison.

2. UA had to do this to line up with CO. Those two will wind up joined at the hip and I'm pretty sure CO was not going to give up the free upgrades...even if they are harder to come by on CO than they are on NW or DL.

3. UA's new upgrade policy will include Hawaii. CO recently announced it as well from LAX only (not EWR or IAH).

I get why some people are still making a stink about the PMU's. However, the big difference here is that UA will allow Hawaii unlimited upgrades for free. If anything, DL would change their policy on that before they change the PMU's IMHO.

-RM

AndyTLe

E+ is already an elite benefit, this would be for F/J.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1314,00.html

BF263533

It seems like a wise move for United.

I tried flying Delta and US Airways around 1996, and was dissatisfied with the upgrade certificate system, so I went back to Continental which had unlimited upgrades back then and I had almost a 100% upgrade rate. When did Delta start the unlimited upgrades?

I have been using Delta the past few years with decent upgrade success.

With US Airways reduced size first class cabins, upgrades have to be rare there.

DJMeatBall

Good for United. I got a comp to Prem Executive one year and never once got to use the 500-mile upgrades on any of meaningful (lengthly) segments I flew on them.

Now the only thing that keeps me flying Delta right now is that my home city (DTW) is a hub... but why any Delta Diamond or Plat would want to endure E- seating on DL or ex-NW planes when there's E+ (more room) on United as a fallback from not getting a complimentary F, that's beyond me. Seems like the 1000 mile "Platinum Upgrade Guarantee" was a response to keep NW elites happy while United elites got more comfort & room with automatic Economy Plus seating. Anything from the competitors to add fire under Delta bean counters' feet is a good thing for all passengers.

mersk862

My thoughts:

(a) The biggest target here is AA. AA is the only other airline that has e500s. Look at the AA/UA relationship in the past here as well - whatever one does, the other will do within a week. My guess is e500s are done in the US by end of this week.

(b) The biggest thing Delta has going for them are large first class cabins. As my United 1P (soon 1K) friend just texted me, "United doesn't have enough FC seats for this." In a sense, he's right. UA A319s have 8F, A320s 12F, large RJs have 6F. DL is 16, 16 and 12 on similar-sized planes (since I believe the -88s are going 16F starting next year). UA/DL are equal on the 757s. This is going to make it very tough for non-1Ks to make it up front - it was tough now, but will be even tougher afterwards. If you're a mid-tier, expect to have that E+ seat on United.

(c) Elite upgrade reciprocity with CO. Everything coming from UA/CO is that their new alliance will be tighter than CO/NW. The biggest question mark was around upgrades - this is settled now. Look for something soon where CO elites can upgrade for free on UA and vice-versa - just like the NW/CO relationship. The only question mark here is top-tier - UA is still at 100k, CO at 75k. Maybe another alignment soon (maybe from CO?).

(d) International upgrades. I wouldn't be shocked if something changed here next year - though I do not expect it to be as liberal as full free H/Q/K use on miles/PMUs, I wouldn't be shocked if something more liberal than a hard-and-fast Y/B/M rule came into play.

(e) Hopefully Hawaii upgrades come out of this. I know United will allow them now, and Continental will allow them on their non-BE services to Hawaii (LAX-OGG/HNL on 737-900s). American also allows their e500s to be used to Hawaii. Alaska gives free upgrades to Hawaii. Absolutely huge disadvantage for Delta, especially having a large Hawaii network - there's no real reason for any Hawaii-based flyer to take Delta now when they know they have to sit in coach. It would be a start for Delta to at least make it so that domestic-configured planes (routes to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SLC) get free upgrades - if not go for the whole deal and give the A330 upgrades out as well. Never really made sense as to why Hawaii didn't get upgrades, especially from the West Coast...(though then again, there are trans-Atlantic flights that are longer than domestic flights *cough ATL-ANC cough*)

Biggest short-term fix I can see Delta making from today's announcement is a more liberal Hawaii upgrade policy. Delta is a large player in Hawaii now with Northwest, yet offers the worst elite experience for a Hawaiian compared to other programs.

Longer-term, I can see a slight loosening of the reins on international upgrades, but that's about it.

For 100k mile flyers, UA looks like a great choice now. I'm considering it for next year - I'll end up with around 90k EQM on Delta and 45 EQS on United this year. I could hit 1K next year if I wanted to. Just not sure I would want to - especially with smaller FC cabins than Delta - could be tough for 1Ks to sit up front on some busy routes.

WBurcham

mersk862 hit the nail on the head...

GREAT for Global Services pax, good for 1K's but iffy for all others.

Now if AA would get rid of the 500 milers, I may actually consider a status match or challenge....

secretsea18

Wow!!!

The FF game has just gotten very interesting. I can't wait to see what CO-UA has up their sleeve besides this new announcement.

DiverDave

Competition is good.

OTOH, Delta didn't even match the fall DEQM offers from the other airlines.

David

Lehava

WOO Hooo they are getting what we had all along??? Why do we keep having these AA is doing, United is doing threads all of a sudden. They are off topic to DL/NW. If folks think other airlines do it better, go for it. But comparing DL/NW to the "joneses" in this forum is getting really boring!

avidflyer

Yes that is how I read it as well.