DL/NW International Cross-Fleeting Fall/Winter 2009
Some premliminary changes again for the fall/winter season:
ATL-AMS goes from NW A333 to NW A332
ATL-FCO goes from NW A333 to DL 767 (combo of 763/764 depending on day/period)
ATL-HNL goes from NW 744 to NW A333
JFK-FCO goes from NW A333 to DL 767 (combo of 763/764 depending on day/period)
DTW-PVG goes from NW 744 to DL 777
MSP-LHR goes from NW A332 to DL 764 (seatmap for Oct 3, for example, shows flatbed J seats on 764ER)
AMS-BOM goes from DL 763 to NW A332
PHL-CDG goes from AF A332/A343 to DL 752
Let the moaning and groaning begin....
Last edited by ClipperDelta; Jul 6, 09 at 11:33 am.
Reason: Changed the FCO flights to 767 (763 or 764 depending on day of week and Fall vs Winter) and MSP-LHR to 764
From what I had seen on Airliners.net, someone had posted that JFK-BOM was going to be discontinued? Can you verify this, and if true, I'd assume that the only DL/NW service to India would be via AMS?
Not surprised on JFK/ATL-FCO going back down to 767s for the (slower) winter; meanwhile, most of these look to be upgrades in terms of soft-product with the exception of those FCO routes and maybe MSP-LHR.
Great info! Thanks for the heads up ClipperDelta! No moaning and groaning here. Interesting that they have already taken the 744 off of ATL-HNL and replaced it with the A333. Shame to lose the UG inventory, but in terms of coach, it is a much nicer ride.
Anyway, I have said a couple of times on the NW board, that if NW-DL is to do fleet shuffling, I would sure like to see the A333 allocated to deep South American routes. Having flown the A333 across the ponds once or twice, I think that would be a very nice ride indeed from ATL to EZE. As always, YMMV.
From what I had seen on Airliners.net, someone had posted that JFK-BOM was going to be discontinued? Can you verify this, and if true, I'd assume that the only DL/NW service to India would be via AMS?
Unfortunately, JFK-BOM has been Zeroed out which means, yes, the only DL/NW metal to India would be the AMS-BOM flight...like the old days when the flight went through either FRA or CDG.
Great info! Thanks for the heads up ClipperDelta! No moaning and groaning here. Interesting that they have already taken the 744 off of ATL-HNL and replaced it with the A333. Shame to lose the UG inventory, but in terms of coach, it is a much nicer ride.
Anyway, I have said a couple of times on the NW board, that if NW-DL is to do fleet shuffling, I would sure like to see the A333 allocated to deep South American routes. I think that would a very nice ride indeed from ATL to EZE. As always, YMMV for sure.
Safe Travels
Why DL downgrading from 744 to A333 aircraft? Is that some reason why the loads wasn't quite doing very well. So I would assume where 744 will operating during Spring/Summer seasonal but, not goes for year-round long. I would likely to know DL will put on A333 during fall/winter seasonal until NW will put revenue back on 744 aircraft during high loaded for ATL-HNL.
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2009 Travel: DL 18836 MQMs
Unfortunately, JFK-BOM has been Zeroed out which means, yes, the only DL/NW metal to India would be the AMS-BOM flight...like the old days when the flight went through either FRA or CDG.
Yep, sure did. That's why its didn't workout very well. As for JFK-BOM availiability is zeros. I think the entire aircraft need flying someplace else for next international expansion either ATL or JFK and LAX.
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I will try to concentrate with English. Thanks!
2009 Travel: DL 18836 MQMs
I wonder if the 744 is being parked, shifted to another route, or what? Hate to lose it on the HNL run, and I hope it truly is only for fall/winter.
I have wondered if perhaps the 744 might be operated to Brazil during peak time (e.g., Carnival). I have a hard time thinking of any other high volume routes that time of year.
ATL-FCO goes from NW A333 to DL 763
Lower quality business class seats
JFK-FCO goes from NW A333 to DL 763
Lower quality business class seats
DTW-PVG goes from NW 744 to DL 777
Mixed feelings. Lower quality business class seats but a B777 in DTW!
But put an LR and then you got
MSP-LHR goes from NW A332 to DL 767 (don't know if 763 or 764)
Lower quality business class seats
AMS-BOM goes from DL 763 to NW A332
Quality business class seats
The FCO flights make sense as there is nowhere near the amount of leisure (coach) demand to Rome during the winter as there is during the summer. The A330s are great for the FCO routes in the summer - you can haul around 260+ coach passengers over there in one fell swoop; the 767-300ERs are a lot smaller and the supply better matches the demand. I wouldn't be shocked to see the 767-300s and the A330s trade off throughout the seasons to Rome (and at one point, there was even talk of putting a 747-400 on the FCO flights in the summer...).
For the 77Es, they are all being reconfigured to the 777-200LR configuration up front. I think work there has started. Given that DL has a small fleet of 77Es (maybe 8 planes), it shouldn't be too hard to get them all retrofitted. Plus it could be a 77L, given that it'll be one of the longer pokes on the 777 for Delta and DL has a lot more 777 capacity this winter (with ATL-BOM/PVG/ICN all discontinued).
For the 77Es, they are all being reconfigured to the 777-200LR configuration up front. I think work there has started. Given that DL has a small fleet of 77Es (maybe 8 planes), it shouldn't be too hard to get them all retrofitted. Plus it could be a 77L, given that it'll be one of the longer pokes on the 777 for Delta and DL has a lot more 777 capacity this winter (with ATL-BOM/PVG/ICN all discontinued).
From the blog Mr. Kotas wrote:
"What I can tell you is that we will be converting our (8) 777ER aircraft from the Millennium product to the Solar Eclipse product to make the cabin virtually identical to our LR aircraft. This mod is expected to induct in the fall of 2010."
It's hard, as it takes at least 30 days for that work to occur. This isn't like replacing a dining set. I heard major seat replaces take place during heavy maintenance checks, killing two birds with one stone. I like Mike's word choice of "induct."
My guess for a wait is a combination of maintenance scheduling and cash flow. (Profit/revenue isn't an issue but solvency is!)
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This pulldown is consistent with the earlier DL talk that it would ground 4 to 6 747-400 aircraft this fall. 2 of the 744's being pulled from scheduled svc will be used to back-fill the 2 747-200B's that are being retired from their charter runs this fall.
As for the remaining 747-400's pulled, it's anyone guess as whether they're stored temporarily...Internal DL talk was that they'd go ahead with interior mods on the parked 744's and cycle them through the fall and winter, so all 16 744's were retrofitted by next summer (not talking PTV in coach). But with DL now studying the future of the 747-400 fleet, who knows!
This pulldown is consistent with the earlier DL talk that it would ground 4 to 6 747-400 aircraft this fall. 2 of the 744's being pulled from scheduled svc will be used to back-fill the 2 747-200B's that are being retired from their charter runs this fall.
As for the remaining 747-400's pulled, it's anyone guess as whether they're stored temporarily...Internal DL talk was that they'd go ahead with interior mods on the parked 744's and cycle them through the fall and winter, so all 16 744's were retrofitted by next summer (not talking PTV in coach). But with DL now studying the future of the 747-400 fleet, who knows!
I think DL will have to be considering newest 747-8I or A380-900 series. It is own logical choice for which aircraft will put on ordered. I think it will have to take the advantage of it to choose for which one is 77W or B748I and A389 aircraft. I will try to have more concentrate to get better more sizeable is right choice of B748I.
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I will try to concentrate with English. Thanks!
2009 Travel: DL 18836 MQMs
MSP-LHR goes from NW A332 to DL 767 (don't know if 763 or 764)
Also, I'm going to guess that based on the following below reasons, this will be on a 767-400 (again, a guess):
(a) All other LHR flights will be on 767-400s (ATL, DTW, JFK)
(b) This will be the only 767 route out of MSP (given that CDG goes away for the winter), meaning the plane will rotate into the system via LHR or DL will run a reposition segment from ATL/JFK
(c) DL should have 7 767-400s reconfigured by fall into the lieflats. Given that there's 1x DTW, 1x ATL and 2x JFK (which all told requires only four planes), there would be 3x 767-400 reconfigured planes, one of which could go to MSP-LHR.
Also, a 767-400 is about the same capacity as an A330-200 (246 seats vs 243 seats) - though it is 8 more seats up front, while 5 seats less in the back. That, and there's AVOD, power in the front half of coach on both planes, while Y seats are about .5 inches wider on the 767-400s vs the A330s...
, I think that would be a very nice ride indeed from ATL to EZE.
