They didn't add the bag fee last year because the international flights were the big money makers, but now that international flying is down, I can see their desire to make up some revenue. Unfortunately, we will see no change in fares as a result of this new charge. If no airlines respond to this, DL will have to go back on it, right? They really must be hoping everyone else does it because then they don't have an inferior product. I've always looked at United as being the abyss of US airlines (well, US Air too), but for once DL beat them to the punch. Let's hope nobody matches this fee.
My issue isn't entirely with the fees themselves. I flew Air Asia this summer extensively and loved them - I don't mind pay-as-you go if the base fare is a value and the fees themselves are reasonable. My problem with all of this is the airline industry's attempt to have it both ways. For instance, it's well known that the nicer the hotel the more expensive everything is (mini bar, that innocent-looking $7 bottle of water in the room, internet etc.). The airlines seem to be in some ways going after that model of charging high prices for absolutely everything, but yet they deliver a greyhound type product. For reasons too complicated to get into, I don't think an airline (at least a US-based airline) could possibly deliver a high-end hotel type experience... and most of us only seem willing to pay for a more-or-less greyhound experience. So if that's the market, why not cut the BS and just focus on the things people care about? Why pretend to be a premium airline, charge premium fees and fares, deliver a greyhound experience, and ultimately fail at both?
This is a good point. The services the fees are being assessed on need to provide a certain amount of value. Operational integrity (safe, on-time flights with superior baggage delivery) is the first step. Improving other core aspects of the customer experience is the next. Beyond that, using the fees to fund improvements in ancillary products and services is logical, but clearly requires a value proposition. I think DL is on the right track, compared to UA who tries to overcharge for the silliest services ($40 for Y+ on a 1-hour CRJ flight?!?).
So the next time FedEx promises me a package on X date and it shows up late, I'm calling AMEX and getting my money back. Same principle.
If you totally exclude the time dimension, then you are right. However, this is different. You are not only paying for the service itsself but for its excecution in a timely fashion. To follow on your - no personal offence intended - worthless example:
- rent a prepaid car at your chosen vacation: no car when you are there but one week before. Service delivered but just not when you needed it?!
- lunch in your 1hr lunch break: would you pay for a meal 2hrs late?
Bottom line is: DL makes us pay in advance for a service. So we held up our deal already. When you buy a packaged service, for instance an internet/telephone/tv combo, and one of those is not excecuted, you actually may deduct the "missing service" from the bill.
I myself ended up with severely delayed baggage once and it took almost 8 months to get a refund of some kind. Why should we as paying customers -who actually were fully compliant to the T&C by paying in full - punished twice? Why should we grant interest free cash credits for non-excecution of services? Why should we pay an additional premium in time, postage, telephone, etc in order to get our cash back?
It does impact customers, and that includes impacting even PMs -- DL management has shown that fees it slaps onto the general customer base are often packaged with a fee waiver for elites that is nothing but a temporary fee waiver in reality. Remember that DL management is known for cutting elite benefits such as fee waivers and so the fees sooner or later become applicable to even Silver, Gold and Platinum passengers.
I dont fly DL but do have some 250k in my acct
My question is when did DL do away with Free Bags for its Elites on Domestic flights? Since it seems you were saying giv ethem time and DL will start charging Elites for bags on Intl flights. Well the bag fees on Domestic flights have been in place for awhile and I dont believe they started charging their Elites as of yet
FedEx taking longer to deliver because of a WX situation is different from losing a package.
As far as the charge back, yes, the terms of the agreement require you to attempt to contact the merchant first before disputing. However, if one were to email DL, it typically takes weeks for them to reply. I would advocate giving them 2 days to respond, when they don't, dispute. The inability of DL to handle CS inquiries is their problem, not yours.
If you dispute a charge after waiting 2 days, the credit card provider is going to laugh at you. They may allow you to file a dispute, but a provisional credit probably won't be issued until after the billing cycle closes. If the issue with the airline isn't resolved by that point (and it almost certainly will), they'll investigate.
Disputing charges with airlines is generally not successful, unless the airline has flat out failed to provide the service (flight canceled, gone out of business, etc.)
I'm going to get killed for saying this, but I think that is an excellent way to generate revenue for the airline.
I can't speak for others, but they are losing revenue from me with all of these fees - the Southwest "two-faced" agent commercial about this is spot on afaiac.
__________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
I can't speak for others, but they are losing revenue from me with all of these fees - the Southwest "two-faced" agent commercial about this is spot on afaiac.
Which of "all of these fees" are you actually paying if you're a NW Plat as your profile claims?
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Brian/\/\ You really should not come to Denver. Cold here. And snowy. And cold. Really, just stay away.
My question is when did DL do away with Free Bags for its Elites on Domestic flights? Since it seems you were saying giv ethem time and DL will start charging Elites for bags on Intl flights. Well the bag fees on Domestic flights have been in place for awhile and I dont believe they started charging their Elites as of yet
You are correct, there are no bag fees for elites.
If you dispute a charge after waiting 2 days, the credit card provider is going to laugh at you. They may allow you to file a dispute, but a provisional credit probably won't be issued until after the billing cycle closes. If the issue with the airline isn't resolved by that point (and it almost certainly will), they'll investigate.
Disputing charges with airlines is generally not successful, unless the airline has flat out failed to provide the service (flight canceled, gone out of business, etc.)
Fair Credit Billing act allows the customer to sidestep the issue of paying the actual disputed fee.
Having actually read the merchant T&C that apply to airlines in general, yes, it is much harder to get a charge back from the airline. However, be that as it may, airlines don't get a carte blanche exemptions from investigation and research fees. In the case of a bag fee these are often more than the amount being disputed. The end game really is for the accounting department to roll over to just refund the monies voluntarily in lieu of proceeding with defending the charge back.
You are correct, there are no bag fees for elites.
Well, for a time, elites got three free bags. That changed not too long ago. Now, elites get two free bags and pay $25 for the third UNLESS they have been upgraded before check in, in which case, they get three free bags.
Not too many waves since few elites ever check more than two bags anyway.
They didn't add the bag fee last year because the international flights were the big money makers, but now that international flying is down, I can see their desire to make up some revenue. Unfortunately, we will see no change in fares as a result of this new charge. If no airlines respond to this, DL will have to go back on it, right? They really must be hoping everyone else does it because then they don't have an inferior product. I've always looked at United as being the abyss of US airlines (well, US Air too), but for once DL beat them to the punch. Let's hope nobody matches this fee.
Perhaps no change in international fares as a direct result of this new fee; but international fares in general are down in the last few months for bookings extending through the summer.
Let's face it, the airfare model is broken. Airlines try to differentiate themselves with service or intangibles - and customers blithely ignore all that to save $4 on a round trip from ATL to Podunk. Every major travel search engine lists fares by lowest price first, or at the top. Every time an airline cuts a fare $5 all of its competitors match in hours - sometimes in minutes. It's all about the airfare - and we have made it that way.
So the airlines are going to an "unbundling" model where they try desperately to "hide" revenue in the form of baggage fees, better seating fees, BOB meals, fees for in-flight entertainment, and on and on. This is where the real competition is these days - which airline can better hide, adjust, and yield-manage its ancillary fees. Delta is just one example; every major airline is doing the same thing to various degrees. WN is the lone exception - and they've had three straight quarterly losses; you can bet ancillary fees are a hot topic around that board room.
Much as we frequent fliers strongly prefer one rate all-inclusive, I think marketing studies and basic human psychology are proving that for the vast majority of fliers, it is apparently okay to get "in the door" at a "low airfare" and then pay a little here, a little there, for extras. Icky but true.
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Brian/\/\ You really should not come to Denver. Cold here. And snowy. And cold. Really, just stay away.
Looks like Continental is now the only airline that didn't "lead the path" with new fees. Case in study: Southwest was the first by eliminating its' free 3rd bag policy; United was the first to establish the $25 2nd-bag fee; American the $15 1st bag fee; US Airways $2 for drinks (abolished now, though), and now Delta with the $50 2nd bag int'l fee. Continental is the only legacy airline that didn't start any new fees; just following. Thoughts on that?
