DL/NW Reciprocal Upgrades Starting October 28

 
Old Oct 24, 2008, 1:03 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Fly_Me_Home
Well this is a potentially beneficial move. I am a little apprehensive as the obvious and immediate affect on both Delta & NW is a huge dilution of the elite upgrade pool, meaning essentially a doubling of upgrade competitors overnight.

I really hope that this is a true "interim" step, however, where on Delta metal Delta Elites always trump NW AND vice versa. I realize in the end this dilution will occur anyhow, but it would be nice to accomplish this in steps, but that is just my thoughts.
You are assuming that NW/DL Elites currently fly in roughly equal numbers on each others' airline. I would be shocked if the average DL flight has more than 1 or 2 NW Elites (and vice-versa for NW flights). Of course, reciprocal upgrades will encourage more crossing-over. However, when a new flyer crosses over, they will be freeing up an FC seat they would have normally occupied on their previous airline of choice. Thus making it available to a flyer crossing over in the opposite direction (who in turns frees up an FC seat when they cross-over).

So, there will be a slight dilution from the current status where the few crossovers do not grab the upgrades of the partner airline fliers, but there will certainly not be a "doubling" of competitors (due to your brethren fliers crossing in the opposite direction). In the end, you will have the combined pool elites drawing upgrades from the combined fleets of both airlines and not much difference from the current status quo.

To put it another way, let's say there are 10,000 combined NW/DL Elites flying on a given day with 10% (or 1,000) currently crossing over. Those 1,000 are currently not eligible for upgrades, so the upgradable pool would currently be 9,000 fliers on a given day. The reciprocal upgrades will simply put those 1,000 fliers back in the upgrade pool, increasing it to the full 10,000 flying Elites. So the dilution effect will be fairly minimal as the percentage increase from 9,000 to 10,000 fliers is not all that great.

I realize there are a couple of assumptions here -- that the current number of crossovers is small and that the new crossovers will be roughly equal in each direction. If anyone has hard facts on the number current crossovers, I'd like to hear about it.

Last edited by xliioper; Oct 24, 2008 at 1:34 am
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 1:24 am
  #17  
 
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YES!!! I just booked 2 NWA MR's (back to back) and was really hesitant because I needed them credited to DL for MQM. DL's fare was $50 more (on a $150 fare) and I couldn't convince myself the bonus miles promo AND upgrades were worth the 30% premium.

So happy to see I may actually stand a chance getting an upgrade next month.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 3:00 am
  #18  
 
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The merged airline will be called Delta. Legacy Delta elites don't deserve any preference over legacy Northwest elites once the merger is completed. Until that occurs, these are the rules.

Just think what would have happened if the new airline were called NWA. Would posters be insisting that NWA elites have preference over DL elites?

Elites from both airlines spend the same amount of time BIS to qualify (except for DL DEQM).

Let's stop the ridiculous rants and get back to discussing this development...my 2 cents
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 5:46 am
  #19  
 
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I too would like to know what the priority will be. I have three flights on NW coming up booked using my NW FF# for the upgrade, but I may switch it to DL if my upgrades look good.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 5:59 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by DlRes
Customers on delta.com will be able to add their frequent traveler number for any airline program to their new or existing reservation
Does this mean, finally, that we'll be able to enter all other ST carrier numbers into our new/original bookings on Delta.com?
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 6:21 am
  #21  
 
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Ack, my question got lost in the other thread.

Does anyone know if DL elites will get upgrade confirmations at the upgrade window, or will this only be gate upgrades?

I'm booked on two NW flights on 10/28, EF shows R7/R2 for them (and 12/16, 7/16 open F seats), I'm DL GM; In theory, today or tomorrow I should get confirmed upgrades -- but who knows.

NW's res system has recognized me as "Gold Elite" since booking.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 6:32 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by woody125
Does this mean, finally, that we'll be able to enter all other ST carrier numbers into our new/original bookings on Delta.com?
Not sure, I'm not familiar with many of the features on delta.com since I work in Res.

Send an e-mail from the contact us section, they should be able to answer you.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 8:54 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by woody125
Does this mean, finally, that we'll be able to enter all other ST carrier numbers into our new/original bookings on Delta.com?
I think that was answered as part of the original post...

Originally Posted by DlRes
Thanks DLBeno, but I think it deserves a thread on its own....
[snip]
What is changing?
[snip]
Customers on delta.com will be able to add their frequent traveler number for any airline program to their new or existing reservation
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 1:21 pm
  #24  
 
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Sorry, but just for clarification, does this mean a DL Elite will get put on the upgrade list on ALL Northwest flights or only those that are code-share flights?

Is there a way to tell before you buy the flight on either DL.com or NWA.com that the flight is a code-share?

Lastly, does this all mean that for a DL-Elite (like myself) we should only be buying Northwest flights via DL.com and not on NWA.com?

Thanks.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 2:00 pm
  #25  
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I heard flying blue elite members will get elite upgrades on dl as well.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 2:12 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by airphone
I heard flying blue elite members will get elite upgrades on dl as well.
That's the disheartening part for me. I don't mind reciprocal upgrades between NW and DL since it benefits a NW flyer on DL and vice-versa. FB elites on the other hand get upgrades on DL/NW metal, while DL/NW elites sit in the back on AF/KL flights. Doesn't seem right at all to me. They get benefits while DL/NW elites get squat.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 2:50 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeyZBT
Sorry, but just for clarification, does this mean a DL Elite will get put on the upgrade list on ALL Northwest flights or only those that are code-share flights?

Is there a way to tell before you buy the flight on either DL.com or NWA.com that the flight is a code-share?

Lastly, does this all mean that for a DL-Elite (like myself) we should only be buying Northwest flights via DL.com and not on NWA.com?

Thanks.
It's quite obvious from the announcements that this has nothing to do with codeshares. Also quite obvious if you look at nwa.com for how the current NW/CO upgrades work.

If you buy a NW flight through any booking vehicle whatsover (other than an "opaque" channel like name-your-own-price part of Priceline) and put your Medallion-level DL# in it (which has been possible for years at nwa.com), you as a DL elite will be included in NW's EUA (Elite Upgrade Automation) process.

If you buy a DL flight through any booking vehicle whatsover (again excluding an opaque channel) and put your Elite NW# in the reservation (which will be possible at Delta.com as of Monday), you as a NW elite will be included in DL's EUA process.

You don't have to buy the flight from either delta.com or nwa.com. You don't have to have the "other" airline's code on it. The comment about the code in the original announcement was about how delta will be showing upgrade inventory buckets for the codeshares on NW. It was not saying that the only way to get upgraded was to buy the flights under the codeshare#.

Go buy it on Orbitz if you want. In fact, you're a lot more likely to find DL coded flights on NW metal showing up on Orbitz than you will on either delta.com or nwa.com. But you don't need the codeshare anyhow.

As to order: Plats are Plats, Golds are Golds, Silvers are Silvers. All Plats get upgraded before any Golds and all Golds before any Silvers. That's entirely fair, if you can realize that the concept here is to "treat the other's elites like our own". Especially given that in a couple of months there is only going to be Delta (in terms of ownership of both airlines).

It would be horribly unfair if an NW Plat was behind a DL Silver for an upgrade on a DL flight. That NW Plat has shown more loyalty to the new combined company by flying at least 75K on what is going to be the new combined company, than has the "native" DL Silver who flew only 25K even if it was all on DL.

If DL and NW were not merging, then there might have been a valid case for "All DL before any NW" - but even there, that wouldn't match up to the model being copied from the NW/CO partnership. It's unclear if CO Plat comes behind NW Plat on NW, but it is clear that All Plat from upgradeable programs come ahead of All Gold.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 2:54 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mersk862
That's the disheartening part for me. I don't mind reciprocal upgrades between NW and DL since it benefits a NW flyer on DL and vice-versa. FB elites on the other hand get upgrades on DL/NW metal, while DL/NW elites sit in the back on AF/KL flights. Doesn't seem right at all to me. They get benefits while DL/NW elites get squat.
Well there is a reciprocality in benefits in Europe on AF/KL - you get lounge access, extra baggage allowance and preboarding.

The main benefit of being an elite member in Europe is the access to lounges, upgrades are not included as the aircraft have adjustible curtains to tailor to the demand.

There's also quite a strong rumor/feeling that Skymiles will not operate in Europe next year and all European members will be integrated into Flying Blue (like the current WP-FB agreement) and that all North American Flying Blue members will become Skymiles members.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 4:04 pm
  #29  
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IF you can't them ,join em.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 4:07 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by GVA
Well there is a reciprocality in benefits in Europe on AF/KL - you get lounge access, extra baggage allowance and preboarding.

The main benefit of being an elite member in Europe is the access to lounges, upgrades are not included as the aircraft have adjustible curtains to tailor to the demand.

There's also quite a strong rumor/feeling that Skymiles will not operate in Europe next year and all European members will be integrated into Flying Blue (like the current WP-FB agreement) and that all North American Flying Blue members will become Skymiles members.
Does that include Silvers/Golds, or just Plats? Because if it's just Plats, lounge access is part of ST Elite Plus benefits. And preboarding is a ST Elite benefit, so again, I'm not getting anything special there.
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