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Old Oct 24, 08, 4:30 pm   #31
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Non us based af golds and plats are elite plus and also get nwa and soon to be delta.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 4:32 pm   #32
 
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This still won't get me to fly NWA metal. I don't need to put up with attitudes and lousy service from NW FAs.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 4:38 pm   #33
 
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Originally Posted by jjglaze77 View Post
If you are using www.nwa.com, then you will not see anything Delta coded.
Nope. It is possible to see the same NW operated flight show up on nwa.com three times, once with a NW flight number (and NW logo), once with a KL flight number (and KL logo) and once with a DL flight number (and DL logo). The reverse is not true for delta.com.

My fear about using nwa.com was that sometime I would screw up and select an itinerary that included a flight with a KL code in an obscure fare class that might not accrue mileage/MQMs.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 4:41 pm   #34
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Originally Posted by GVA View Post
Well there is a reciprocality in benefits in Europe on AF/KL - you get lounge access, extra baggage allowance and preboarding.

The main benefit of being an elite member in Europe is the access to lounges, upgrades are not included as the aircraft have adjustible curtains to tailor to the demand.

There's also quite a strong rumor/feeling that Skymiles will not operate in Europe next year and all European members will be integrated into Flying Blue (like the current WP-FB agreement) and that all North American Flying Blue members will become Skymiles members.
So in reading FB's FFP, it is the SkyTeam Elite Plus members that get access to lounges on them, which I would think would hold true post-merger. Meaning a DL/NW Gold/Silver will get turned away from any KL/AF lounge unless they have other credentials (meaning elite status does them no good). As I said earlier, Preboarding is a SkyTeam Elite benefit. We already get that. Extra baggage allowance - a little extra weight allowance is not that big of a deal, especially when you get 50 lbs. or so (23 kgs, which I think equates to about 50 lbs) to start with. Not much of an enticement.

I still say that giving upgrades to FB members is a joke - a couple extra KGs of a baggage allowance does not offset complimentary upgrades in the United States (especially when, if you do get said upgrade on DL, you automatically get 3 bags at 70 lbs each which is even more generous than FB!). Everything else is a ST Elite/Elite Plus benefit (lounges, preboarding, priority check-in, etc.).

I really hope DL does away with FB complimentary upgrades unless AF/KL reciprocates (which I doubt will happen).
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Old Oct 24, 08, 5:59 pm   #35
 
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Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
I still say that giving upgrades to FB members is a joke - a couple extra KGs of a baggage allowance does not offset complimentary upgrades in the United States (especially when, if you do get said upgrade on DL, you automatically get 3 bags at 70 lbs each which is even more generous than FB!). Everything else is a ST Elite/Elite Plus benefit (lounges, preboarding, priority check-in, etc.).

I really hope DL does away with FB complimentary upgrades unless AF/KL reciprocates (which I doubt will happen).
Agreed. It also seems unfair that US-based Gold members (of all airlines) get ST Elite, whereas Gold members in other countries get Elite Plus. (Star Alliance gives Gold members top tier *A status.) I'm not holding my breath, but perhaps that can change in the merger.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 6:42 pm   #36
 
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Originally Posted by dtremit View Post
Agreed. It also seems unfair that US-based Gold members (of all airlines) get ST Elite, whereas Gold members in other countries get Elite Plus. (Star Alliance gives Gold members top tier *A status.) I'm not holding my breath, but perhaps that can change in the merger.
So what's to stop a US person from giving the airlines a European address? For DL, the only thing they ever mail to you are your PMUs and credentials. Hopefully PMUs will go electronic soon.....
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Old Oct 24, 08, 6:53 pm   #37
 
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Originally Posted by MarkXS View Post
It's quite obvious from the announcements that this has nothing to do with codeshares. Also quite obvious if you look at nwa.com for how the current NW/CO upgrades work.

If you buy a NW flight through any booking vehicle whatsover (other than an "opaque" channel like name-your-own-price part of Priceline) and put your Medallion-level DL# in it (which has been possible for years at nwa.com), you as a DL elite will be included in NW's EUA (Elite Upgrade Automation) process.

If you buy a DL flight through any booking vehicle whatsover (again excluding an opaque channel) and put your Elite NW# in the reservation (which will be possible at Delta.com as of Monday), you as a NW elite will be included in DL's EUA process.
Thanks for the assistance... but it wasn't exactly "quite obvious" as you said. For the future, you might want to watch how to start your e-mails because that's a pretty condescending way to address someone.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 7:11 pm   #38
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Originally Posted by Mrp Alert View Post
The merged airline will be called Delta. Legacy Delta elites don't deserve any preference over legacy Northwest elites once the merger is completed. Until that occurs, these are the rules.

Just think what would have happened if the new airline were called NWA. Would posters be insisting that NWA elites have preference over DL elites?

Elites from both airlines spend the same amount of time BIS to qualify (except for DL DEQM).

Let's stop the ridiculous rants and get back to discussing this development...my 2 cents
I think yours might be the ridiculous rant. I don't think the other poster was saying that Delta members should have priority over NW members on NW operated flights just DL ones. And, the reverse accordingly. I am going to disagree that is the way that it should work as you may read after the following quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly_Me_Home View Post
I really hope that this is a true "interim" step, however, where on Delta metal Delta Elites always trump NW AND vice versa. I realize in the end this dilution will occur anyhow, but it would be nice to accomplish this in steps, but that is just my thoughts.
This has been discussed ad nauseum here at FlyerTalk. Clearly there are two lines of thought but to me, it isn't a reciprocal upgrade program that encourages people to fly either if they are not equal. At this point, why not make them equal since in a few months they will be equal anyway. The other poster did a pretty good job of explaining the give and take that should result in about the same amount of upgrades.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 7:26 pm   #39
 
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Originally Posted by tonypct View Post
This still won't get me to fly NWA metal. I don't need to put up with attitudes and lousy service from NW FAs.
Agreed 100%! After flying on Delta and then to fly on NWA would be like going from a penthouse to an outhouse. I think we all know which of the two carriers provide the best onboard product, absolutely no comparison in my opinion.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 8:14 pm   #40
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Originally Posted by GVA View Post
Well there is a reciprocality in benefits in Europe on AF/KL - you get lounge access, extra baggage allowance and preboarding.

The main benefit of being an elite member in Europe is the access to lounges, upgrades are not included as the aircraft have adjustible curtains to tailor to the demand.

There's also quite a strong rumor/feeling that Skymiles will not operate in Europe next year and all European members will be integrated into Flying Blue (like the current WP-FB agreement) and that all North American Flying Blue members will become Skymiles members.
This should not surprise anyone -- we'd have DL only doing what DL wants to do .... yet again.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 10:20 pm   #41
 
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Arrow lets pull it together people

I am a loyal NWA PLAT and have been for 2 years now.... I too was apprehensive on this merger and for a long time dispised Delta.... HOWEVER..... the fact is that we are going to be one family soon and all this bickering will get people nowhere.

BOTH airlines have advantages and both have disadvantages.

- DOM FC on NW - we have 16 FC seats on all but the rj's and even more on the 757's...Delta does not - they only have 14 seats on most DOM equip (at least the MDXX series) to me that is a big issue obviously less chance of UG

- Delta has a much better DOM FC and Coach product in terms of service, and espeically IFE. NW flight attendants were bitter and for a while obnoxious - -however this has gotten much better lately so give them a shot again.
- NW webiste is superior to Delta's clugy website which is hard to navigate and not user friendly. Delta's Gate status monitors are fantastic in my opinion with the UG lists - although I hear MSP has this now for NW (hopefully coming to DTW) but Delta did that for a long time before NW cought up.

- DTW is a much easier airport to navigate than ATL that place is a ZOO at all times - even MSP is less crowded but they are the busiest in the world i'm hoping Delta will find a nice balance between all hubs.

A BIG ONE FOR ME is that at my home city FNT NW has cut service so bad in terms of flights its really hard to get them anymore - and if you miss one - watch out - your stuck in DTW for 8 hours (or you drive) Delta's schedule out of FNT - MUCH NICER - in fact - if they weren't all CRJ's (yuck on any airline 200,700 series) I would use them more often because there seems to be a flight every 2 hours or so.

These are some of my observations - but basically - we need to give BOTH airlines a shot and see what the final product looks like before saying I HATE XX anymore. Its just not worth stewing over
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Old Oct 24, 08, 10:43 pm   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrout View Post
I am a loyal NWA PLAT and have been for 2 years now.... I too was apprehensive on this merger and for a long time dispised Delta.... HOWEVER..... the fact is that we are going to be one family soon and all this bickering will get people nowhere.

BOTH airlines have advantages and both have disadvantages.

- DOM FC on NW - we have 16 FC seats on all but the rj's and even more on the 757's...Delta does not - they only have 14 seats on most DOM equip (at least the MDXX series) to me that is a big issue obviously less chance of UG

- Delta has a much better DOM FC and Coach product in terms of service, and espeically IFE. NW flight attendants were bitter and for a while obnoxious - -however this has gotten much better lately so give them a shot again.
- NW webiste is superior to Delta's clugy website which is hard to navigate and not user friendly. Delta's Gate status monitors are fantastic in my opinion with the UG lists - although I hear MSP has this now for NW (hopefully coming to DTW) but Delta did that for a long time before NW cought up.

- DTW is a much easier airport to navigate than ATL that place is a ZOO at all times - even MSP is less crowded but they are the busiest in the world i'm hoping Delta will find a nice balance between all hubs.

A BIG ONE FOR ME is that at my home city FNT NW has cut service so bad in terms of flights its really hard to get them anymore - and if you miss one - watch out - your stuck in DTW for 8 hours (or you drive) Delta's schedule out of FNT - MUCH NICER - in fact - if they weren't all CRJ's (yuck on any airline 200,700 series) I would use them more often because there seems to be a flight every 2 hours or so.

These are some of my observations - but basically - we need to give BOTH airlines a shot and see what the final product looks like before saying I HATE XX anymore. Its just not worth stewing over
Thanks for a very thoughtful post.
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Old Oct 24, 08, 11:56 pm   #43
 
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Put nicely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by indufan View Post
I think yours might be the ridiculous rant. I don't think the other poster was saying that Delta members should have priority over NW members on NW operated flights just DL ones. And, the reverse accordingly. I am going to disagree that is the way that it should work as you may read after the following quote.


This has been discussed ad nauseum here at FlyerTalk. Clearly there are two lines of thought but to me, it isn't a reciprocal upgrade program that encourages people to fly either if they are not equal. At this point, why not make them equal since in a few months they will be equal anyway. The other poster did a pretty good job of explaining the give and take that should result in about the same amount of upgrades.
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Old Oct 25, 08, 1:22 am   #44
 
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Originally Posted by LBJ View Post
You are assuming that NW/DL Elites currently fly in roughly equal numbers on each others' airline. I would be shocked if the average DL flight has more than 1 or 2 NW Elites (and vice-versa for NW flights). Of course, reciprocal upgrades will encourage more crossing-over. However, when a new flyer crosses over, they will be freeing up an FC seat they would have normally occupied on their previous airline of choice. Thus making it available to a flyer crossing over in the opposite direction (who in turns frees up an FC seat when they cross-over).

So, there will be a slight dilution from the current status where the few crossovers do not grab the upgrades of the partner airline fliers, but there will certainly not be a "doubling" of competitors (due to your brethren fliers crossing in the opposite direction). In the end, you will have the combined pool elites drawing upgrades from the combined fleets of both airlines and not much difference from the current status quo.

To put it another way, let's say there are 10,000 combined NW/DL Elites flying on a given day with 10% (or 1,000) currently crossing over. Those 1,000 are currently not eligible for upgrades, so the upgradable pool would currently be 9,000 fliers on a given day. The reciprocal upgrades will simply put those 1,000 fliers back in the upgrade pool, increasing it to the full 10,000 flying Elites. So the dilution effect will be fairly minimal as the percentage increase from 9,000 to 10,000 fliers is not all that great.

I realize there are a couple of assumptions here -- that the current number of crossovers is small and that the new crossovers will be roughly equal in each direction. If anyone has hard facts on the number current crossovers, I'd like to hear about it.
I would like to say this is the most sensible and logical post on this subject I have ever read on either the NW or DL boards. Lets try to think along these lines and be less xenophobic.
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Old Oct 25, 08, 9:50 am   #45
 
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Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
I really hope DL does away with FB complimentary upgrades unless AF/KL reciprocates (which I doubt will happen).
Agreed. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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