L Fares and Upgrades

 
Old Jul 9, 1998, 11:17 pm
  #76  
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JoanH,
Give me (US) a break $100 for air fare not even on L class.......I think if you don't fly some low cost air fare you must not even care about the company or your job. Give your boss my name looks like I could do the job much cheaper.
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Old Jul 10, 1998, 1:40 am
  #77  
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There is no doubt that, given the scenario presented by JoanH, she IS the better customer. And there are indeed many people who, for one reason or another, buy full fare tickets almost all the time. Many of you act as though this never happens, but in fact it does and in many markets there are not discounted no-advance-purchase/no-Saturday-night-stay fares. As a Platinum flyer, I don't begrudge her the fact that she is the better customer.

The only beef I have with the no-L-fare upgrade policy is that they didn't include some mechanism where if all Medallion members flying on non-L fares have been accommodated with upgrades and yet first class seats are still available, then Platinums (and other Medallions) could be upgraded at the gate just prior to flight departure. I think this is only reasonable. As it is, you have non-revenue airline employees getting upgraded while some Platinum flyer who happens to be on an L fare sits in the back, even though his/her last ten flights may have been full Y fare, or international C fare. This doesn't make sense -- that you would categorically exclude someone who flies 100,000 miles a year on your airline from a space-available upgrade.
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Old Jul 10, 1998, 7:25 am
  #78  
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Atlanta to Savannah L fares are $76.00. ATL to MEM - $96.00, ATL to MCO/TPA or MSY run $116.00. To MIA/BWI/IAH/ORD run around $158 but as a business traveler, I do not always know where I will be needed 21 days in advance nor will I stay over a Saturday night and charge my company for unnecessary hotel and car charged to save a buck on airfare. Nor will I steal as some elites I know do by doing the ole "back to back ticketing strategy" (i.e cheat/lie) to get a lower fare. I wouldn't risk embarrassing myself or my company by trying to cheat another company. Also, in most of the markets that I travel in, even the B fares are pretty high. Sometimes, I can get an H or Q that is a walk up special but even those are sometimes 2 and 3 times higher than the L fares. And trust me, if I qualify for an L fare, I will get it and I will not stand at the gate or in the Crown Room crying over not being able to upgrade like I see so many others doing these days.

Also - MY Delta friends tell me that they make more off of Gold members paying real fares than Platinums paying Ls and making Platinum by trying to connect through 5 cities to bulk up their segment count.

And to Mr. Kelly - Yes, you might be able to do my job cheaper than I do but then again, you get what you pay for.
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Old Jul 10, 1998, 10:13 am
  #79  
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To JoanH.
Hope your not paying $1,000 for those itineraries you mentioned. For tomorrow (7/11): ATL-SAV...Q...#198RT ATL-MEM...Q..$238RT ATL-MSY.....K....$258RT


NOBODY at DELTA will tell you that they prefer Gold's over Platinums...that statement is ludicrous.

Also, keep in mind that you are in ATL.. Most Platinums come from connecting cities where they have a choice of airlines to fly if they are changing planes. ATL is a hub and if you want to fly non-stop then you have NO choice but Delta (Airtran exists but is not an alternative for most biz travelers.

Again....most of us are only compalining because of the space available situation, and the way Delta handles it and can't keep their story straight. (Revenue..Service,etc)
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Old Jul 12, 1998, 1:00 pm
  #80  
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I like the way you think JoanH. Too bad you werent here a few weeks ago when I was trying to get that very same point across. Your response to Mr Kelly could also apply to airline tickets. "you get what you pay for" And it appears as though alhcfp has found some good prices on non L fares. Good for him....maybe he can upgrade. See - it is possible!
Delta is here to make money. The same as any other company out there. That is why it makes sense to me that they would rather upgrade someone who spent more on their ticket. (or bought a first class ticket in the first place.)
Again I think people lose sight of the true purpose of a Frequent Flyer program.


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Old Jul 12, 1998, 3:42 pm
  #81  
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Your half right Jeyna...the people who have lost sight of the purpose of the FF programs is airline management. They have turned it into a revenue enhancenment by selling miles to companies as incentives, as well as MCI, hotels and car rentals, investment houses and mortgages. Unfortunately, they now have a mileage liability that they try to ignore.

Your TRUE FF believes in the following unwritten contract:
"I will fly your airline and give it as much business as possible.....I may pay higher fare....I will forego direct flights,.... I will fly north to go south.....I will accept inferior service......I will fly on inferior equiptment on that route.....I will put up with your delays..........IN RETURN...YOU WILL TREAT ME SPECIAL".

That is the part the airlines have forgotten!!!!

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Old Jul 12, 1998, 9:23 pm
  #82  
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alhcfp,
you said it all......Thanks

JoanH,
Thank you, my company thinks so.

jeyna,
Yes "you get what you pay for" I/My company payed over 24K for my air travel last year on Delta alone.
I think all we ask is when we(FF) sometimes go out of our way to fly with Delta when we have other airlines to fly. We would expect Delta (sometimes) to go out of their way to make us feel SPECIAL.

I must say I like to fly with Delta and most of the time its great. I think we all can agree Some Great people work at Delta.
If the management at Delta could see what loyal (FF) they have they might see the real numbers.

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Old Jul 13, 1998, 7:26 am
  #83  
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alhcfp and kelly: I am sure both of you have taken advantage of your SkyMiles membership by redeeming free tickets and upgrading. Am I right? It may not be as easy as it used to be...but that is simply because the programs have gotten out of hand. There are not enough "free" seats available. So you can't upgrade on every single flight. Is that really so bad? If alhcfp can upgrade on one of his $200 K fare tickets - that's great! But it is a bonus, a perk, an added incentive to fly Delta. Delta can't fill up the plane with free award tickets and fill up first class with free upgrades. How would they make money? As I have said before - you guys have made some valid points. And whether you believe it or not, I am sure Delta appreciates your business.

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Old Jul 13, 1998, 1:40 pm
  #84  
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After reading and responding to the "no upgrades of 'L' class policy, here is what I would like to see Delta to do -

1 - Since Delta only gave 6 months notice before disallowing the 800-mile segment upgrades on 'L'-class fares, give everyone 6 more months to upgrade from all domestic 'L'-class fares.

2 - Allow elite members(platinum, then gold, then silver) flying on 'L' class tickets to waitlist for upgrades; then, before assigning boarding passes to non-revs, if at 30 minutes before departure there are 1st or business class seats available, allow us to upgrade with our segment upgrades.
*30 minutes is the minimum stated check-in time in order to be able to upgrade.
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Old Jul 21, 1998, 10:56 pm
  #85  
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God forgive me for stirring up this little nest again but I had to respond to ALHCFP -

Several people at Delta - albeit in a social setting and off the record DID SAY that a recent study showed that Golds on an average spent more that Platinums. I'm sorry if you think that is ludicrous, but scince it seems to mostly be the Platinums that are crying over the L fare rule, it should seem obvious that they are not paying too very much for the tickets that they buy. And, again, I know many people who are Platinum due to making 5 stops on a trip from Boston to Atlanta, just to rack up the segment count.

This new system is really seems to be improving things. My flights all seem to be leaving on time for the most part and I'm sure that not having 20 people hanging around to see if they cleared stand by for an upgrade at the very last minute is a contributing factor.

Some of these people crying over this sound like welfare mothers pouting cause they are going to have to start going back to work and stop living off the rest of us. The only people that are truly owed a first class seat on any airline are the ones that paid for one. And NO, by flying X many miles or segments a year, you did not pay for a future upgrade. You got what you paid for when you took the original trip, the rest of it is just a bonus.

I keep hearing that the airlines may one day start tying their programs to how much you spend instead how many times you step on an airplane. Maybe that will settle this arguement over who is the better customer once and for all.
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Old Jul 22, 1998, 2:12 am
  #86  
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Hi JoanH

As a rule I don't believe in responding to unconfirmed anonymous off the record surveys.

Please post that secret survey that shows Gold is better than Platinum.

Also where do you get the idea that ONLY Platinums are complaining.

On the bright side, I have cut my flying with Delta in half and therefore should be Gold for 1999. I guess delta should send me a Thank You note for being a better customer. (PS I have cut my delta expendature by about 60%)
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Old Jul 22, 1998, 6:02 am
  #87  
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JoanH,

First, there is a difference between a rebate and a bonus. On a recent flight, because I was an elite flyer, the senior flight attendant came to me and presented me with a gift - that is a bonus; it was unexpected and never implied that I would be given the gift. Our FF plans are clearly a rebate. The plans clearly state what we must do to earn free tickets, upgrades, and other special privileges. If I do my part, the airline must come through with their promised "rebate".

And as for the flock of people waiting around at the last minute to see if they cleared standby...those are probably the company employees or other non-revs waiting; as they are the last to be given boarding passes.
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Old Jul 22, 1998, 3:23 pm
  #88  
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OK, I admit it -- I do usually top off my account (and thereby make Platinum) by flying some low cost legs bought at a sale fare. Face it: 100,000 miles is a lot of travel on one airline in a year, so routine must-do travel for a lot of people won't get you to 100,000 miles. So, I suspect a lot of people do what I do to put the mileage over the Platinum top.

Therefore, if you average in the cost of must-do business travel with that of cheap tickets to top off the account, I suspect a case could be made that the AVERAGE amount spent per mile earned for Platinums is less. However, I have no doubt that the total annual cost for all tickets is still greater for Platinums than it is for Golds.

Airlines often look at things like yields (i.e., revenue generated per mile of travel), so quite probably this was the context in which the cocktail party talkers were speaking.
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Old Jul 22, 1998, 5:03 pm
  #89  
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Responding to Robert Leach...
We all top off our accounts when close. Many silvers add segments to make Gold.. It's all part of the game.

Also....those that live in Atlanta qualify by miles, whereas those that live in a non-hub city qualify by segments. I doubt that JoanH really knows anyone that uses 5 segments to do BOS-ATL, in fact it would be very expensive knowing Delta's fare structure.
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Old Jul 22, 1998, 5:42 pm
  #90  
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My thoughts regarding those who say that people who pay more per FF mile earned are more somehow more deserving than those who pay less.

The airlines give us the rules, and I decide which routes/airlines to fly based on the FF program and miles earned. Some of us may be more of a master at earning miles than others. For instance, I can become an elite member on another airline by sending a letter requesting elite status and by showing I am already an elite on another airline; perhaps this isn't fare to those that had to earn their miles on the airline I am seeking elite status, but all things are not equal. If airlines want to change the way we earn FF miles, or the amount of FF miles we earn, then they are free to do so; they make the rules, and I play their game. It is the same when shopping, buying a car or house, etc...

My thoughts on why airlines don't directly give FF miles based on the amount paid for a ticket:

Yes, on the surface it doesn't make since. If I pay $500 for a ticket and fly 1000 miles, shouldn't I get a bigger FF mile credit than if I paid $500 and flew 3000 miles? After all, it costs more to fly a person 3000 miles than 1000 miles. But I did some thinking and came up with the following:

1. It would give the IRS an easier way of calculating the FF miles value. Business travelers and Congressmen would now have pay taxes on miles earned when someone else pays for the ticket.

2. It would make it easier for companies to negotiate with airlines a discount equal to the value of FF miles in exchange for forgoing the FF mile credit. Again, business travelers won't like this.

3. When a person is reimbursed for travel expenses, it could actually prompt some travelers to intentionally buy the more expensive tickets so that they would get a larger FF mile credit. This won't go over very well with businesses and local governments.

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