Apr 15, 2015, 11:30 am

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last updated: 8/29/2016

In early 2015, Delta began publishing blackout dates for DL award redemptions on China Southern flights. The following blackout dates are now found in the Delta SkyMiles terms and conditions (http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...blackout+dates):

Europe to China
2016
Mar. 18 - Mar. 26
Apr. 13 - Apr. 23
Jun. 25 - Aug. 30
Oct. 4 - Oct. 23
Dec. 8 - Dec. 23

China to Europe
2016
Jan. 2 - Jan. 15
Mar. 27 - Apr. 10
Apr. 17 - Apr. 28
Jun. 20 - Oct. 2
Oct. 17 - Oct. 28

North America to China
2016
Feb. 12 - Feb. 24
May 12 - Jun. 30
Jul. 25 - Aug. 31
Oct. 4 - Oct. 14
Dec. 8 - Dec. 23

China to North America
2016
Jan 2. - Jan. 15
Jan. 29 - Feb. 9
Jun. 24 - Sep. 4
Sep. 27 - Oct. 2

Oceania to China
2016
Jan. 1 - Jan. 5
Feb. 11 - Feb. 22
Jun. 19 - Jun. 27
Nov. 29 - Jan. 10, 2017

China to Oceania
2016
Jan. 1 - Mar. 2
Jul. 10 - Aug. 10
Sep. 27 - Oct. 5

The 2016 blackout dates for North America to China cover 128 days, or 35% of the calendar year.

China Southern and Delta Air Lines: The Definitive Thread

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Aug 29, 2016, 6:11 pm

#301

RealHJ

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: HNL

Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive

Posts: 7,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyerCO

CZ has blackout dates for awards. Is this an award or revenue ticket? Using DL miles means that 1)CZ has to have given DL award seats, just because they offer them to their FF members doesn't mean anything, and 2)DL rules apply, including blackout dates for CZ, MPM, routing restrictions, etc

Actually here's what it likely could be (I've had it happen before): DL Res can put in flights that are available during blackout dates (for KE, CZ, etc.). BUT, it just will fail to ticket and won't price. It could be that one or both of the flights here are during the sector-specific blackout dates. Meaning that DL res can put it together, but it won't even price out and no way to override and ticket it. They just are too ignorant to know that it is during blackout dates, and so give all sorts of fake made-up reasons. That is what it is.

I've had that happen before during blackout dates: can put res together, but cannot ticket it no matter what (I had forgot to check the blackout dates then).

Lesson is to never trust what DL res tells you for why it doesn't work and check on the facts yourself.

Aug 29, 2016, 7:06 pm

#302

lamont2718

Join Date: Nov 2012

Location: ATL

Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, AA EXP, UA Silver, former DL DM

Posts: 2,001

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakemalloy

All I do know is that using the ExpertFlyer tool I see 8 seats available both ways.

What dates of travel are you trying to book?

Aug 29, 2016, 7:25 pm

#303

jakemalloy

Join Date: Mar 2012

Posts: 324

Oct 9 or 10 return Oct 19 or 20. Business class.

Aug 30, 2016, 1:51 am

#304

lamont2718

Join Date: Nov 2012

Location: ATL

Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, AA EXP, UA Silver, former DL DM

Posts: 2,001

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakemalloy

Oct 9 or 10 return Oct 19 or 20. Business class.

Well that's why. Oct 4-14 is a CZ blackout period for US-China award flights. See the wiki above.

Aug 30, 2016, 6:47 am

#305

jakemalloy

Join Date: Mar 2012

Posts: 324

Is that true across all carriers? Also, can I book a one way reward?

Aug 30, 2016, 10:39 am

#306

flyerCO

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: San Antonio

Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium

Posts: 27,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakemalloy

Is that true across all carriers? Also, can I book a one way reward?

Of course not. Those are the CZ award blackout dates. Note the website will return results for those dates. However, when you click the final purchase button it will fail to complete the reservation.

Of course can book one-way. Those are DLs rules.

Sep 9, 2016, 9:34 am

#307

Kevin Bombino

Join Date: Nov 2015

Posts: 5

I've been having a hell of a time trying to book CZ awards with SkyMiles. I found the blackout dates in the wiki and thought that was my problem but I am still getting failures to book even if the dates are outside of those blackout dates. Anyone have any suggestions? Specifically I am trying to book CAN-LAX.

Sep 9, 2016, 11:33 am

#308

RealHJ

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: HNL

Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive

Posts: 7,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Bombino

Likely phantom availability: DL shows a flight as available that really is not. Nothing to be done about it. It's still a rampant practice of DL to show unavailable flights as available, and not just CZ.

Sep 9, 2016, 4:08 pm

#309

mcdeuce

Join Date: Sep 2010

Posts: 108

Delta can't guarantee seats nor that Garuda airlines have my two award legs in their system, yet my booking shows confirmed and Delta billed me fees and taxes (multiple times, long story) and tell me not to worry. I'm beyond worried, justly so?

Sep 9, 2016, 4:19 pm

#310

RealHJ

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: HNL

Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive

Posts: 7,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdeuce

Just look it up using the GA PNR (as always, make sure to get all operating carrier PNRs from DL, as DL always withholds that critical information from all their pax and it must be manually requested) on their site and have them confirm that it's fine. If you can select seats its fine then

Sep 9, 2016, 5:13 pm

#311

bubbashow

Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Long Beach, CA

Programs: DL DM

Posts: 5,292

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdeuce

Call Garuda...get a seat assignment. Jeeze....if you are THAT worried you could have done it in the time it took you to post

Sep 9, 2016, 6:56 pm

#312

mcdeuce

Join Date: Sep 2010

Posts: 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbashow

Call Garuda...get a seat assignment. Jeeze....if you are THAT worried you could have done it in the time it took you to post

This is hilarious, I'm now having to do Deltas job! Let me get them on the phone.

Sep 9, 2016, 6:58 pm

#313

mcdeuce

Join Date: Sep 2010

Posts: 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealHJ

Thanks for this, I'll call tomorrow's in hopes Delta share this with me.

Sep 9, 2016, 7:11 pm

#314

RealHJ

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: HNL

Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive

Posts: 7,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdeuce

Thanks for this, I'll call tomorrow's in hopes Delta share this with me.

That they will. Just they never give it on the receipt or online (like most other airlines do), so you always have to ask them for it. If you book by phone, make it a habit to ask for all operating carrier PNRs (passenger name records, a.k.a. confirmation numbers) at time of booking before you hang up.

With GA, you can load up your res on their site with the GA PNR (that you need to get from DL). If you can see your res, it shows the proper ticket # for it, and you can select seats, you are probably fine. But if still unsure, just e-mail or call GA for that extra peace of mind.

GA is one of the best airlines in SkyTeam service (before and in flight) and food + product wise, so i'm sure that you'll have a wonderful experience with GA (and will undoubtedly wish if only DL product/service could be half as good..).

Sep 9, 2016, 7:22 pm

#315

mcdeuce

Join Date: Sep 2010

Posts: 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealHJ

This is very much appreciated. Cheers.