FCM fees not refundable?
#16
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,368
Surely they can't mean in any situation. If DL cancels the flight, surely DL would have to return the FC upgrade fee, just like they would be required to refund seat reservation fees, etc.
#17
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: TYS
Programs: Delta, AA, Hilton
Posts: 149
This ticket is non-refundable unless the original ticket was issued on a fully-refundable fare. Some fares may not allow changes. If allowed, any change to your itinerary may require payment of a change fee and increased fare.
#18
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Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: Formaldehyde Medallion DL DieMiles
Posts: 12,646
Yes, most DL tickets are nonrefundable; in that, if you cancel the reservation, you are charged a change fee and the balance of what you paid goes into your account as an e-credit.
The situation for UGs purchased after the ticket is issued is more severe. The fee you paid for the UG is really, really, really nonrefundable... as in lost for evermore. The increment that you paid for the UG goes away... you receive no credit for it. It is gone. It has been dumped down the Memory Hole.
To paraphrase Monty Python, the fee you paid has passed on. It is no more. It has ceased to be.
Just to be sure, I called the DM line again for confirmation. The agent had to put me on hold in order to research the answer. Ultimately, she confirmed that UGs purchased after ticketing are treated as miscellaneous charges that are not credited back to the purchaser after cancellation. This is consistent with the DL web content that I posted previously:
"All post purchase paid upgrades are nonrefundable and must be used as ticketed. No changes are permitted. Failure to use the seat upgrades as ticketed will result in forfeiting the upgrade purchased."
FORFEIT is the operative word here.
Your $400 FC add-on to a $400 coach ticket will be treated just like a $30 buy-up to C+.
So, again, unless you buy the FC fare initially, you'd be best advised to call an agent (withing the 24 hour "risk-free" period) and purchase the UG... making sure that the transaction shows that the additionall charge is part of the actual ticket price and not an incremental fee.
Consider this scenario... you have purchased the UG (after ticketing). Compelling personal reasons dictate that you must switch to another flight, which does not have a FC seat available. According to the above, you would not be refunded the FC UG charge for the flight that you had to move away from.
The "it's not a problem unless it's my problem" and the "anything that increases airline revenue is all right by me" crowds may be OK with this. But, considering the escalating costs of the FC buy-ups, I am not OK with this.
#19
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: midwest
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 920
How is it fair? You agreed to it, and it is part of the reason you're paying the amount offered instead of having to pay to upfare. Like buying an E ticket and then complaining how is it fair to customer not to allow changes. +1 to DL for helping you out, although probably had something to due with a Hurricane. Which since DL wouldn't have been able to fly you, would have refunded anyway. (emphasis added)
I assume the underlying coach ticket was non-refundable. If the waiver period made the underlying ticket situationally refundable, why would the FCM portion be kept by Delta. That makes no sense and would anger customers (and, more importantly for future sales, discourage some people from buying them).
#20
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: TYS
Programs: Delta, AA, Hilton
Posts: 149
We are tripped up here by semantics... different grades of "nonrefundable."
Yes, most DL tickets are nonrefundable; in that, if you cancel the reservation, you are charged a change fee and the balance of what you paid goes into your account as an e-credit.
The situation for UGs purchased after the ticket is issued is more severe. The fee you paid for the UG is really, really, really nonrefundable... as in lost for evermore. The increment that you paid for the UG goes away... you receive no credit for it. It is gone. It has been dumped down the Memory Hole.
To paraphrase Monty Python, the fee you paid has passed on. It is no more. It has ceased to be.
Just to be sure, I called the DM line again for confirmation. The agent had to put me on hold in order to research the answer. Ultimately, she confirmed that UGs purchased after ticketing are treated as miscellaneous charges that are not credited back to the purchaser after cancellation. This is consistent with the DL web content that I posted previously:
"All post purchase paid upgrades are nonrefundable and must be used as ticketed. No changes are permitted. Failure to use the seat upgrades as ticketed will result in forfeiting the upgrade purchased."
FORFEIT is the operative word here.
Your $400 FC add-on to a $400 coach ticket will be treated just like a $30 buy-up to C+.
So, again, unless you buy the FC fare initially, you'd be best advised to call an agent (withing the 24 hour "risk-free" period) and purchase the UG... making sure that the transaction shows that the additionall charge is part of the actual ticket price and not an incremental fee.
Consider this scenario... you have purchased the UG (after ticketing). Compelling personal reasons dictate that you must switch to another flight, which does not have a FC seat available. According to the above, you would not be refunded the FC UG charge for the flight that you had to move away from.
The "it's not a problem unless it's my problem" and the "anything that increases airline revenue is all right by me" crowds may be OK with this. But, considering the escalating costs of the FC buy-ups, I am not OK with this.
Yes, most DL tickets are nonrefundable; in that, if you cancel the reservation, you are charged a change fee and the balance of what you paid goes into your account as an e-credit.
The situation for UGs purchased after the ticket is issued is more severe. The fee you paid for the UG is really, really, really nonrefundable... as in lost for evermore. The increment that you paid for the UG goes away... you receive no credit for it. It is gone. It has been dumped down the Memory Hole.
To paraphrase Monty Python, the fee you paid has passed on. It is no more. It has ceased to be.
Just to be sure, I called the DM line again for confirmation. The agent had to put me on hold in order to research the answer. Ultimately, she confirmed that UGs purchased after ticketing are treated as miscellaneous charges that are not credited back to the purchaser after cancellation. This is consistent with the DL web content that I posted previously:
"All post purchase paid upgrades are nonrefundable and must be used as ticketed. No changes are permitted. Failure to use the seat upgrades as ticketed will result in forfeiting the upgrade purchased."
FORFEIT is the operative word here.
Your $400 FC add-on to a $400 coach ticket will be treated just like a $30 buy-up to C+.
So, again, unless you buy the FC fare initially, you'd be best advised to call an agent (withing the 24 hour "risk-free" period) and purchase the UG... making sure that the transaction shows that the additionall charge is part of the actual ticket price and not an incremental fee.
Consider this scenario... you have purchased the UG (after ticketing). Compelling personal reasons dictate that you must switch to another flight, which does not have a FC seat available. According to the above, you would not be refunded the FC UG charge for the flight that you had to move away from.
The "it's not a problem unless it's my problem" and the "anything that increases airline revenue is all right by me" crowds may be OK with this. But, considering the escalating costs of the FC buy-ups, I am not OK with this.
During a weather waiver, I think it is fair and reasonable to expect the FCM to transfer to the new reservation, or at least be offered as part of re-booking. If on rebooking there isn't inventory in the F cabin, then the difference should be refunded on returning to main cabin, since the originally booked flight was not going to operate (even if it was cancelled for reasons 'beyond Delta's control', once a waiver has been announced the rules change).
I assume the underlying coach ticket was non-refundable. If the waiver period made the underlying ticket situationally refundable, why would the FCM portion be kept by Delta. That makes no sense and would anger customers (and, more importantly for future sales, discourage some people from buying them).
I assume the underlying coach ticket was non-refundable. If the waiver period made the underlying ticket situationally refundable, why would the FCM portion be kept by Delta. That makes no sense and would anger customers (and, more importantly for future sales, discourage some people from buying them).
Unfortunately for me, my company buys only Y fares, and rebooking for the difference in the first 24 hours is a bit of a grey area. Would probably be fine if flown as booked, but not sure what would happen if I had to have the (now F) ticket rebooked. They might take the change fee out of my UG cost and then have the balance refunded to the company after they rebooked me on another Y flight.