A Few IROP and Related Questions

Old Aug 15, 2017, 10:04 am
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A Few IROP and Related Questions

I was on DL1637 BWI>DTW last Friday on an A fare. We experienced a maintenance issue with a bulb that was quickly fixed but then a ~ 20 wait for the infamous log. So we are looking to depart 30-40 minutes late but I know it's a padded schedule out of WAS airports and we can make up time. But then a single pax decides that either she's afraid now or that she's going to miss her connection and she wants off the plane. It's nearing the end of the day and I don't know why, but we wait an hour for a GA to bring the jet bridge over to let this person disembark. We end up getting into DTW 1h40m late and so I miss last connection to MSN for the day. I was using the app at BWI to rebook to first flight to MSN the next AM (a CRJ2) but during the process, that flight somehow sells out. My best option is then go DTW>MSP>MSN the next AM because the next MSN flight isn't until mid-afternoon. There are no F seats apparently for sale on either flight (those standby list showed 2 seats available on each) but I am confirmed in Y. I have to tell Twitter rep to put me on UG standby list and specifically point out that my order on standby list should be dictated by A fare and IROPS, not my PM status. I go to 2 on the DTW>MSP list, and am upgraded at T-15, and 3 on MSP>MSN and do not clear and sit in last row of a B717.

I have a lot of questions about this:

1. Are pax allowed to just demand disembark after door closed? We were well < 1 hour late, most of us would have made our connections and even if you missed it, at least you'd be at the point for the next one.
2. Will DL reimburse me for the hotel? The line at the customer care counter was ~ 20 long when I got there and I wasn't waiting. I booked the connected Westin on my app at my corporate rate of $149 and went over.
3. If DL knows our connecting flights have left, why don't they just prepare a hotel / amenity kit for those who clearly have to overnight and hand them out at the gate instead of making us wait 20 deep in a 2 CSR line?
4. I have mostly bought A fares this year for the SDC features it offers. But this is my 4th IROP where I end up being re-booked into coach and my order on the UG list is clearly determined by status and not that I'm flying IROP on an A fare. Have others experienced this issue?
5. Does DL keep track of customer complaints? This is my 4th complaint this year (I complain each time I fly in Y on an A fare -- 3/4 due to maintenance on 20-30 year old birds, 1/4 due to the storm debacle). I don't want to be known as a problem child but I do feel if I am paying for an A fare and then sit in last row of a B717 and am 14 hours late due to maintenance, that something is in order.

Sorry, I'm just kind of fuming about it because I really had to change a lot of plans on Saturday because of 1 passenger who wanted to disembark.
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 10:45 am
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All right, I'll try to answer... some things are related here.

Since the original delay was MX and it cascaded into your missing your connection, yes DL will cover the hotel. They normally provide vouchers in circumstances like this, but you can submit a complaint/feedback and briefly explain that a mechanical delay causes you to eventually miss your connection and have to overnight at DTW. They should end up sending you a check for the hotel. I'm assuming you had your bag so don't need to submit for incidentals like toothpaste etc.

Since you were on a paid first class fare and not a medallion upgrade, you should've been rebooked directly into F if there were any seats available, not put in Y and then on the upgrade list. In order to get irop priority for upgrade, it also has to be coded that way as a travel disruption. You should explain that you were on a first class fare and ask to be booked directly into first. This is assuming the flight was selling first... if not then the upgrade list as mentioned applies.

Also since you were downgraded from your original first class ticket, you are due compensation of $200 and the fare difference on your impacted segment(s) that you did not sit up front. I wonder if you've gotten this for your other MX issues this year and the meltdown.

Yes they keep track of complaints, however yours are not frivolous so should not be counted against you if thats what you're concerned about.
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 10:54 am
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For #1 , there is no legal requirement to allow a passenger to disembark until you hit the three hour mark for a tarmac delay. However, there are several reasons Delta might do it even though they aren't legally required to:
1) The crew might have worried the passenger would cause trouble if they didn't
2) There has been a lot of bad press about passengers and airlines crashing and they may be more cautious.
3) The passenger may have relayed other information that made their request more pressing (for example a medical reason...)
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 11:01 am
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I have complained only on the A to Y fare downgrade, especially the time we departed with an open seat in F but ambivalent GA wouldn't fix it even though I asked before boarding. I got $200 twice, the third time was the blanket 20 or 25K miles we all got during the ATL storm debacle. I have bought 40 A/F/P segments this year and it highly, highly, annoys me that I have been downgraded 10% of the time and I know on at least 3/4 it was because I either wasn't on UG list or put on as a PM and not A/IROP.

They also always eliminate the MQM bonus so I have to message to get that as well.
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 11:19 am
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Taking OP's sequencing.

1. Passengers can demand anything. There is no requirement that DL have returned to the gate, but most carriers will do so because the reprecussions of having this turn into an incident in the air and having to divert are more serious than a simple ground delay.

2. You can make the argument that this was all in DL's control, although DL might just say that the initial short delay would not have caused a misconnect. However, you may run into trouble with $149 because you skipped asking DL for a voucher. DL pays almost nothing for those rooms and may well only reimburse you what it pays for those vouchers (which can be $50 or less).

3. Why indeed? Because there is no way of knowing who wants a voucher and because someone has to do the preparing. DL does do this on long-haul flights where it has hours to prepare. At some stations, the kiosks are set up so that you can handle rebooking and obtain vouchers without speaking with anyone.

4. How has DL handled your prior A rebooked into Y complaints?

5. Yes.

A couple of easier solutions:

A. Make the claim on travel insurance. It tends to pay up to a fixed amount and $149 is likely well within range. You get that and food and you have a check in a few days.

B. If this was business travel (corporate rate) why isn't this reimburseable by your employer, leaving to your employer --- or TA --- the decision to pursue DL or not?
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 11:35 am
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Originally Posted by Often1

2. However, you may run into trouble with $149 because you skipped asking DL for a voucher. DL pays almost nothing for those rooms and may well only reimburse you what it pays for those vouchers (which can be $50 or less).

3. Why indeed? Because there is no way of knowing who wants a voucher and because someone has to do the preparing. DL does do this on long-haul flights where it has hours to prepare. At some stations, the kiosks are set up so that you can handle rebooking and obtain vouchers without speaking with anyone.

4. How has DL handled your prior A rebooked into Y complaints?

5. Yes.

A couple of easier solutions:

A. Make the claim on travel insurance. It tends to pay up to a fixed amount and $149 is likely well within range. You get that and food and you have a check in a few days.

B. If this was business travel (corporate rate) why isn't this reimburseable by your employer, leaving to your employer --- or TA --- the decision to pursue DL or not?
At the point that it's well after 11 PM and I need to be up by 6:30 AM for 2 more flights to get home, I don't want to wait 30+ minutes in line and I am guessing that they would rebook me at a an offsite hotel. I didn't want to even risk that. Then I end up with 3-4 hours of sleep and add 2 shuttle trips into the mix. I was in my bed within 30 minutes of landing the way I did it. But, IDK, does DL use that Westin? I can't imagine their rates are amenable to DL even if discounted.

If they create the voucher kit and I don't want it, then they can cancel / discard. Most people who missed last connections are going to need a hotel.

I've gotten $200 on two prior occasions and 20-25K miles on the third, this is the 4th. I'm tired of complaining and getting $200. I want it to rebook me properly and my concern is that they aren't fixing the system.

I don't buy travel insurance and even if I totally lost out on this, I would still come out ahead with all the trips I take. My company gets a flat rate of $2250 per week I go MSN>BWI from the client. I was at about $2200 before the IROP so I don't feel my employer should lose out because of a DL mishap. I'm going to see if DL will pay first.
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 12:17 pm
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Originally Posted by bergamini
I have a lot of questions about this:

1. Are pax allowed to just demand disembark after door closed? We were well < 1 hour late, most of us would have made our connections and even if you missed it, at least you'd be at the point for the next one.
I guess apparently they are. Sorry for your travel troubles.

I have had good experience calling Customer Care in Atlanta. I expect they should be able to sort out your compensation per rylan's helpful summary in this thread above.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22113233-post126.html
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 1:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1
Taking OP's sequencing.

1. Passengers can demand anything. ...

2. You can make the argument that this was all in DL's control, although DL might just say that the initial short delay would not have caused a misconnect. However, you may run into trouble with $149 because you skipped asking DL for a voucher. DL pays almost nothing for those rooms and may well only reimburse you what it pays for those vouchers (which can be $50 or less).

3. ...
The CoC promises DL will reimburse hotel costs of up to $100. In practice DL will reimburse the full cost unless excessive.
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Old Aug 15, 2017, 2:41 pm
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
The CoC promises DL will reimburse hotel costs of up to $100. In practice DL will reimburse the full cost unless excessive.
I'd take $100.
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Old Aug 16, 2017, 8:52 am
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Also, my last vent, but my proposal is each time Delta delays us > 2 hours due to maintenance, crew or other non-weather/natural issues, or we have to take a later flight, etc., then we get a voucher good for one waived change fee. I'm tired of paying $200 when I need to make changes and they get a free pass when they do.
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Old Aug 16, 2017, 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by bergamini
3. If DL knows our connecting flights have left, why don't they just prepare a hotel / amenity kit for those who clearly have to overnight and hand them out at the gate instead of making us wait 20 deep in a 2 CSR line?
The last time I was stranded overnight in ATL, the DL app booked me a free hotel room. As we were taxiing to the gate, the app offered me the choice of 4 nearby hotels. I picked my favorite and got a confirmation email a few seconds later.
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Old Aug 16, 2017, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by kjnangre
The last time I was stranded overnight in ATL, the DL app booked me a free hotel room. As we were taxiing to the gate, the app offered me the choice of 4 nearby hotels. I picked my favorite and got a confirmation email a few seconds later.
Wow. I wonder if that's only at ATL?
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Old Sep 29, 2017, 9:07 am
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FWIW, here's an update on the resolution. I submitted a TTU "complaint" and didn't hear back in 40 days so I called in (not PM line, CS line -- they are separate and PM rep gave me CS line since I had a case # from email). No arguments, just a pleasant conversation although I was annoyed it took her a while to figure all that went on. Her original resolution was:

1. Full reimbursement of hotel and dinner, will take 6-8 weeks ($206 total)
2. Send request to some department for calculation & reimbursement of fare differential between A & whatever coach bucket they determine
3. Send request to another department for MQM bonus on coach legs (this is kind of double dipping but I feel earned)

Within 2 days, I got an email about a $110 credit on my Amex for downgrade fare differential. It posted immediately. I then got a check in the mail for $200 for involuntary downgrade which the CS rep did not mention and I appreciated. The MQM bonus quickly showed up. So all I'm waiting for is hotel/food which technically I could have expensed as we do flat rate billing per week to that client and I was < $2250 for Baltimore by at least that amount. But I was pretty ticked at DL

So the $200 reimbursement for downgrade (which PM desk has hedged about in past IROP situations) does appear to be legit if it goes to the right department. Nice bonus check today.
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Old Sep 29, 2017, 11:28 am
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This sounds like one of the worst case scenarios in dealing with the DL bureaucracy -- and that it could have been handled better on the front-line. My experience is that some front-line personnel are very knowledgeable and helpful and others are deer in the headlights (or worse) when confronted with a problem. And when they do put you up at a hotel these days it's often a hair above a fleabag at MSP (though getting the Marriott at DTW happened, too) and at CVG it was a Hampton Inn (ordinarily OK but this one was smoky and run down). I've had some similar situations where IROPS caused me to miss the last flight into MKE but there was a flight to MSN. They put me on the MSN flight but said I was on my own as far as getting back to MKE but should do a TTU. Ditto for when I rejected the airline's choice of hotel and got an emergency rate at a Fairfield or Springhill. The $100 vouchers were enough to offset the one-way rental and also the hotel rooms. (As for DTW, the night at the Marriott came with an unexpected bonus. Marriott had a stay one night, get one free promotion and I got a cert for a free night at most Marriotts!)
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Old Sep 29, 2017, 11:34 am
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Originally Posted by bergamini
Also, my last vent, but my proposal is each time Delta delays us > 2 hours due to maintenance, crew or other non-weather/natural issues, or we have to take a later flight, etc., then we get a voucher good for one waived change fee. I'm tired of paying $200 when I need to make changes and they get a free pass when they do.
This is really a good point. I don't know what the answer is but concur with the sentiment. That said, I have a kid (transplant patient) whose health situation has necessitated me getting home at times and DL in those situations has made it happen. So I will give them a little bit of slack when I can.
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